Thursday, November 30, 2017

The Amazing Density of the Reaction to the Abusers and the fellow traveling of Cosmopolitan and Playboy.

We've been hearing a lot about male bad behavior, starting with the entertainment industry (Cosby, Weinstein, etc) and moving on to politics.  It started, I suppose, with Franken (if we don't count Wiener. . . or Trump . . . or Clinton. . . or Kennedy) and has gone on to John Conyers.  One of the weekend shows discussed it in length, again, and again with women who have suffered abuse.  The discussion was pretty revealing.

Most of that we've been through here before, but one thing that really struck me is that women serving in Congress who were interviewed were all big on the fix.  They're going to have training sessions.

Seriously?

Cokie Roberts expressed the view that nothing was actually going to change.  Whether this is a watershed moment or not, this increadably stupid modern American reaction to this age old bad behaviro is really telling.

Training sessions.

That's dumb.

This is conduct that's been regarded as reprehensible in most societies for eons.  It's certainly always been regarded as deeply immoral in any Christian society, and as my now frequent quoting from the Old Testament in this series of stories shows, it's been regarded as deeply immoral in Jewish culture for millennia.

I'm sure that force upon women hasn't been regard as immoral at all in all cultures, however, at all times, even though there are very certainly non Christian and no Jewish cultures where it would have been also.  Certainly Roman Britain gives us the example of Chiomara who had the head of an offending Roman Centurion cut off so she could return it to her husband and note that he remained the only man who had been intimate with her to be alive.

Maybe Congress staffers could take Chiomara training?

Anyhow, this moronic Congressional reaction says a lot about how far gone we really are in terms of grasping what is really a very simple standard. We've worked so hard to divorce ourselves from the natural law and from any concept of traditional morality, based as it is on religious principals that we've effectively returned to paganistic practices and now wonder why things are so bad.  Moreover, in our confusion, we're trying to create the old standard out of new namby pamby social cloth.

You can't sensitivity train people into what is right and wrong and have them believe it.  It has to have a basis in something.  Otherwise, why not get away with whatever you can?

On this, I recently heard a podcast that had some really interesting revelations about the sad state of things and how we got there.  We've been discussing a lot about the eruption of abuse allegations endured by women recently.  In that context, we've discussed the bizarre groping in the dark for the old standards.  But I haven't looked much at the female role, or those who claim a female role, in the decline of the standards.

Related to this is this fascinating story:


Here's the synopsis of it:
Sue Ellen Browder helped sell the sexual revolution. And she, along with many others, lied to do it. Her book, Subverted: How I Helped the Sexual Revolution Hijack the Women’s Movement, names names as it tells the heartbreaking tale.
It's a really fascinating story.

One of the things I haven't discussed here, in depth, is the female role in subverting the progress of women and the bizarre way that came about.  In part I haven't discussed it as I don't really know that much about it, the way that I do the male role and the figures in it, such as Hugh Hefner.  Sue Ellen Browder really goes into it, however, and from that we can see how there was a female companion to the destructive role that Hefner and his ilk played in the form of Helen G. Brown and Cosmopolitan magazine and that the image it portrayed was just as big of fraud.  Indeed, Browder confesses that the magazine simply made things up and that she participated in that.

Browder is pretty clearly an unabashed admirer of Betty Frieden in her early days, but maintains, pretty effectively, that the feminist movement was co-opted and that even Frieden, who originally regarded Cosmopolitan as disgusting trash, came around to linking what was a libertine sexual movement completely independent from feminism with what was a women's rights movement.   She maintains, in fact, that it was a tactical move on the part of the libetines.  Indeed, Freiden maintained that feminist movement wasn't about sex and originally had fairly conventional moral views which she never wholly gave up, although under pressure she came around to supporting abortion.  Browder's expose is pretty shocking and shows that the feminist movement could have gone another way, and indeed she sees the women who are pro life today as heirs to the feminist movement.

This isn't intended to be a review of the podcast, but we've delved a lot into this topic, i.e., the roles of men and women and the nature of the relationship between men and women, a lot recently.  There was an aspect of this missing that Browder cover, and that is that the role of women popularized by Playboy and then picked up, in a morphed form, by Cosmopolitan, has been aggressively destructive to women.  It in facts supports the view that abusers today hold of women and helps keep that conduct going on.  It will as long as the image, which was not one women ever wanted, and don't want now, keeps on.

Now, to be fair, Browder discusses at length the horrible work environments that women worked in prior to the rise of the feminist movement.  That's important also as its very easy to either imagine that things have always been as bad as they currently are in the workplace for women, or they are worse than ever.  Neither is true and Browder makes that pretty clear.  A lot gains were in fact made and the workplace is much safer now for women than it used to be.  Abuses haven't stopped, however.

And here's where things circle back around. Women will never be equal in society as long as a pagan concept of their sexuality remains the popular one. Women want it, now, and always.  That's the societal view.  Take any sitcom you watch, or look at the copy of any magazine, etc. and you'll get that message.  The Playboy message was that all women were young, big boobed, dumb, available and sterile.  The Cosmopolitan view was different in only in the message that they were thinner, smarter and really slutty.  Women have had to contend with that expectation every since.  In that context, it's a lot easier for men with Cosby or Weinstein instincts to get away with immoral behavior for a really long time.

So, train up a new standard?

Not hardly.

Acknowledge the old one.  Indeed, the original feminist never intended or desired to abandon it.

North Korea keeps on perfecting its ICBM

Uff, this year won't end soon enough. 

Of course, that takes the naive view that with the end of the year, the end of the year's bad news comes as well.

Probably not.

Anyhow, North Korea has tested an ICBM that can probably hit anywhere in the United States.

Just a few months ago, when the Dear Leader first tested an ICBM the denial of this was so strong that one forum I noted on this drew an immediate response from somebody declaring that North Korea had not developed an ICBM.  Heck, they'd just tested one.

This is a huge, immediate, problem. 

We've ignored this for years and years.  Starting really with Clinton the North Korean progression towards a nuclear weapon, and the capability to deliver it, has been pretty obvious.  Of course, the first Presidents to deal with it, or not, had more of an excuse.  It was further away.  Maybe the whole thing could be diverted.

By President Obama's term it was pretty evident that the crisis was becoming immediate.  Of course, he had plenty of crises on his hands.  And now it's nearly fully developed, and we have President Trump, whom many feel rather uncomfortable with in this context.

Well, this is going to be a test of President Trump, and for that matter the United States, South Korea, Japan, China and Russia.  Let's hope we all pass the test, whatever that means.

And the Old Standard Strikes Back

And now Matt Lauer.

Seems like it just won't end.

Wednesday, November 29, 2017

Coffee

Coffee rationing began in on this day in 1942.

Smiling soldier.  I think he's drinking coffee.  I may have had to volunteer for service (which I likely would have done anyway) just in order to get a cup of coffee.

I would not have liked that.  Coffee roasters were already restricted to 75% of their war time prior average.  This resulted not due to fewer beans being produced during the war.  Not hardly. Rather, it resulted from the fact that this import crop is shipped to the continental United States

I think that's something that we tend not to ponder much. Coffee is a huge American drink, just like tea is a huge British drink, but in neither case do these consuming nations produce the elemental crop locally.  Given that, it's really amazing that either drink has such a hold in the consuming nation.  Indeed, by and large, with some slight exception, its not even grown in the Norther Hemisphere.  Kona coffee, grown in Hawaii, is the only coffee actually grown in the United States, in so far as I'm aware.

Just consider it for a moment.  The bean that is roasted to produce the crop is grown thousands of miles from the continental United States, roasted (often) in the US, and then packaged for sale here.  It's pretty amazing that there's more than a couple of varieties of it, frankly, or that its even affordable.


The Coffee Bearer, by John Frederick Lewis, Orientalist painter.  The same figure was a figure in his painting The Armenian Lady, whose servant she is portrayed as being.

As an aside, the second biggest coffee bean producer in the world (the first is Brazil) is. . . . Vietnam.

One more reason that not having prevailed in the Vietnam War is unfortunate, to say the least.

Well, anyhow, it's not cheap, as any coffee drinker will tell you. But it's not terribly pricey either.

And somehow, it's gone from a few basic brands to a wide variety of specialty brands and brews of every imaginable type and variety.



Coffee varieties have of course always existed.  Interestingly, one of the contenders for oldest coffee brand sold in the United States is Lion Brand which is Kona coffee.  Lion was first sold in the United States, as green coffee beans, in 1864.  Pretty darned early.  Hawaii wasn't an American territory at the time.  Folgers has them beat, however, dating back to 1850.  Hills Brothers dates to 1878.  Maxwell House to 1892.

Arbuckle Coffee, for some reason, was a huge item in the West in the late 1800s, showing how brands come and go.  I've never seen Arbuckles sold today, although it apparently still exists.  The owners of the company, John and Charles Arbuckle, owned a ranch near Cheyenne, although I don't know if that explains the connection with the West, or if perhaps that connection worked the other way around.

Now there's a zillion brands of coffee, many of which I don't recognize, and many which have pretensions towards coffee greatness.  This seems to have come about due to the rise of coffee houses, lead in a major way by Starbucks.  There's a Starbucks on every street corner now, it seems.  I'll be frank that I don't like their coffee much at all.  Too strong, and I like strong coffee.  Anyhow, the many specialty brews that Starbucks makes has spawned many various specialty coffees, or at least different coffees, to the extent to which a person can hardly keep track of it.  Over the weekend I was in City Brew, one of the local coffee houses, as well as Albertsons, where a Starbucks is located, and they both had "Christmas Blends".  How can there be a Christmas blend of coffee?

Chock full o' Nuts, a brand that, as the can indicates, has been around since 1932.  That was the date the company founder changed his nut shops into lunch counters, figuring that they were a better bet during the Great Depression.  I used to drink Chock full o' Nuts when I was in college but stopped as it seemed to have way too much caffeine.

Not that I'm complaining.  I frankly like the vast variety in coffee. And while I'm not inclined to buy something like Starbucks Free Range Easter Island Coffee Licked Gently By Baby Yaks, I will buy peculiar roasts just because the sound interesting. And I tend towards those dark roasts even if I sometimes wish I'd gotten something milder.

And it is interesting to see how coffee houses, following in Starbuck's wake, have popped up everywhere.  Just the other day I bought a sack of Boyer's coffee in the grocery store.  I was aware of Boyers, as they're a Denver brand with a Denver coffee house, but I wasn't aware that you could buy it up here.  Quasi local, as it were.  A great Denver coffee, with some good coffee houses is Dazbog, which plays up the Russian origin of the founders.  One of the independent local coffee houses here sells Dazbog, and its good stuff.  City Brew has outlets here in town, and apparently they're originally from Montana, which they play up with some of their roasts, even though we all know coffee isn't grown in Montana.  I'm told that Blue Ridge Coffee, another local coffee house that sells sacked coffee, is purely local.

And that doesn't cover every coffee house in town.  Quite the evolution when just a decade or so ago you'd have had to go to a conventional cafe and just have ordered the house coffee, whatever that was.  No special roasts or blends.  Just a up of joe.

And I prefer to buy from the locals as well.  Subsidarity in action, I suppose.  Indeed, I'm not told that I can buy Mystic Monk sacked coffee at the Parish Office, and I likely will.

In the grocery store, for the most part, you bought the major brands.  Most of those are still around,  but now you can buy any number of major and minor brands.  I even have a coffee grinder, although that certainly isn't a new invention, although most of the time I buy pre ground coffee.  Indeed, I got the grinder as I bought whole bean coffee by mistake, which I've done from time to time, and I don't want to waste it.

Using coffee grinders, of course, is an odd return to the past. Everything old is new again, sort of.  But the huge variety, of course, is wholly new.

Industrial strength coffee grinder.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Related threads:

Coffee

The Science Behind Coffee and Why it's Actually Good for Your Health

Blog Mirror. A Hundred Years Ago: Keep Coffee Warm with a Thermos

National Coffee Day.

The Joy of Field Rations: Roasting Coffee in the Field

Mid Week At Work: Railhead: Sunrise Train, Torrington Wyoming

Railhead: Sunrise Train, Torrington Wyoming


The early risers.

Thanksgiving 1917

Given the news of the day, it couldn't have been a cheery one.

President Wilson issued a proclamation, as was the custom:
 
By the President of the United States of America
A Proclamation
 It has long been the honored custom of our people to turn in the fruitful autumn of the year in praise and thanksgiving to Almighty God for His many blessings and mercies to us as a nation. That custom we can follow now even in the midst of the tragedy of a world shaken by war and immeasurable disaster, in the midst of sorrow and great peril, because even amidst the darkness that has gathered about us we can see the great blessings God has bestowed upon us, blessings that are better than mere peace of mind and prosperity of enterprise.

We have been given the opportunity to serve mankind as we once served ourselves in the great day of our Declaration of Independence, by taking up arms against a tyranny that threatened to master and debase men everywhere and joining with other free peoples in demanding for all the nations of the world what we then demanded and obtained for ourselves. In this day of the revelation of our duty not only to defend our own rights as nation but to defend also the rights of free men throughout the world, there has been vouchsafed us in full and inspiring measure the resolution and spirit of united action. We have been brought to one mind and purpose. A new vigor of common counsel and common action has been revealed in us. We should especially thank God that in such circumstances, in the midst of the greatest enterprise the spirits of men have ever entered upon, we have, if we but observe a reasonable and practicable economy, abundance with which to supply the needs of those associated with us as well as our own. A new light shines about us. The great duties of a new day awaken a new and greater national spirit in us. We shall never again be divided or wonder what stuff we are made of.

And while we render thanks for these things let us pray Almighty God that in all humbleness of spirit we may look always to Him for guidance; that we may be kept constant in the spirit and purpose of service; that by His grace our minds may be directed and our hands strengthened; and that in His good time liberty and security and peace and the comradeship of a common justice may be vouchsafed all the nations of the earth.

Wherefore, I, Woodrow Wilson, President of the United States of America, do hereby designate Thursday, the twenty-ninth day of November next as a day of thanksgiving and prayer, and invite the people throughout the land to cease upon that day from their ordinary occupations and in their several homes and places of worship to render thanks to God, the great ruler of nations.
In Witness Whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done in the District of Columbia this 7th day of November in the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and seventeen and of the independence of the United States of America the one hundred and forty-second.

WOODROW WILSON
 The news, overall, was pretty grim:


The concern of what was going on with Russia, as can be seen, was mounting.

So what was Thanksgiving like in 1917 for average Americans?  This item from A Hundred Years Ago gives us a glimpse/  This ran on A Hundred Years Ago prior to the 2017 Thanksgiving.  I'm linking it in now, as the 1917 Thanksgiving was on this day, rather than the slightly earlier day in November we now celebrate it on.  An interesting look at earlier Thanksgivings:

Grandma’s 1914 Thanksgiving

Interesting that goose was the meat of choice.

Tuesday, November 28, 2017

The Aerodrome: National Aviation History Month


National Aviation History Month

Somehow I managed to miss the fact that November is National Aviation History Month.


Something that would have fit in well as a topic here on our blog.

Well, at least there's a little November left anyhow.

Today In Wyoming's History: November 28, 1917.

Today In Wyoming's History: November 28:

1917  Cornerstone laid for the Platte County Library.

I'm not completely certain, but I think that the old library is still there, attached to a much larger more recent structure. That sort of library update is fairly common. The Natrona County Library is the same way.

Libraries have fallen on somewhat hard times in recent years, but they remain a vital part of any community.  Most, indeed nearly any significant library, have updated their services over the years and offer a variety of them, although competing with the home computer is pretty tough.

In smaller communities, they also provide vital meeting room services.  Indeed, I was trying to remember if I've ever been in the Platte County Library.  I don't think so, but the reason I was trying to recall that is because I took a deposition in a southeastern Wyoming library years and years ago.  I'm pretty sure, however, that was the Goshen County Library.  Nonetheless, in smaller towns, finding a space in which to do something like that can be hard, and libraries can fit the bill. By the same token, I've taken a deposition in the Yale Oklahoma library, and there clearly would have been no other place in which to do that.

Anyhow, today is the centennial of the Platte County Library's cornerstone being fixed.

Monday, November 27, 2017

The M4 Sherman gets no love. . . but it should.


 M4 (not M4A1) version of the Sherman tank prior to the elimination of the dual forward firing machineguns that are very rarely sen in photographs.


Listen to this presentation from modern tanker Nick Moran and you'll know why.  It's excellent:

Nick Moran on C-Span on the M4 Sherman.

And then consider his individual presentations on M4s:






Not that it matters.  M4 haters are going to believe all the myths about them as its fun to do.

Okay, I know that some thing that this blog never looks at anything more recent than 1917, unless its really recent, but as people know we stray outside the lines here all the time, and we recently did so with our excellent (if I do say so myself) expose on myths of the Korean War.

In that we addressed the much maligned M4 Sherman tank. Indeed, in the context of the Korean War I've been a bit of a M4 critic myself, but I've conceded in that post that the stats just don't bear up the idea that the M4 was a horrific piece of junk that got  all of its crews killed in Korea.  Indeed, the stats show that the M4 was taking on the T-34/85, which I regard as the best tank of World War Two (Moran does not) and besting it.

And stats are hard to ignore.

But people do anyway.

Now, as I'll note below, I think there some explanations to that which somewhat modified that story, but in general  I agree with Moran's opinion, as is obvious, but I didn't come to it through Moran.  I've long held the opinion that the M4 was a good tank and frankly the best the US could have hoped for during World War Two.  But Moran did add factors to it, such as the ability to load the tank on ships easily, that I had not considered.  My opinions has long been based on something else.

Sherman's function, almost all the times.

The German tanks it opposed were often broken down.

A broken down tank is a worthless hunk of scrap steel.

Nonetheless there are zillions of articles, blog entries and some books that roundly condemn the M4 Sherman.  It's interesting, inf act that there are those who will post the question "why is it so routinely condemned" while other actually act as if they're breaking  new ground on some story.  Consider, for example, this recent article on something called "Military History Now".





Tank Busting – Blowing Up the Myth of the Mighty M4 Sherman


“The Battle of the Bulge exposed deficiencies in the M4 so glaringly obvious, what became known as the Sherman Tank Scandal would be splashed across front pages all over the Allied world.”

By Christian M. DeJohn
THE SHERMAN TANK — who hasn’t cheered it in Hollywood epics like A Bridge Too Far, Band of Brothers, or The Pacific? Just when all hope seemed lost, a column of Shermans arrives in the nick of time to save embattled American soldiers. Great cinematic moments like these are spot on, aren’t they? The Sherman was the tank that won the war, right?*
Well, not exactly.
According to British historian Sir Max Hastings, “no single Allied failure had more important consequences on the European battlefield than the lack of tanks with adequate punch and protection.” The Sherman, he added, was one of the Allies’ “greatest failures.”
Well, with all due respect to Mr. DeJohn, and to Sir Max Hastings, one of my favorite military authors, "bull".

 USMC M4A3R3 on Okinawa. The M4A3 had both the 75 and the 76 (which was really a 75) high velocity gun.  This photo provides a good illustration of the way the US had to approach tanks.  It's not like the Germans or the Soviets needed to put tanks on a postage size Pacific island after hauling them half way around the world, is it?

Okay, let's discuss the Sherman a bit.

Before we do, however, let's get a handle on the state of tanks, in very general terms, before World War Two, and into it.

Now, this isn't going to be a "history of tanks, 1919 to 1945".  That would be a 300 page text at least.  No, by general, I mean general.

Generally, there'd been a lot of experimentation with tanks in the decade leading up to World War Two, but the US wasn't one of the nations that was doing the experimenting.  Indeed, our best tank designer of the period, J. Walter Christie, didn't receive any contracts for tanks in the US, or at least none of note.

 You have to love this photograph of J. Walter Christie, famous tank designer.

Now Christie,  like Ferdinand Porsche, was a mechanical and automotive genius, not a tank designer per se, but like Porsche, he turned his attention to tanks.  Heck, it was an interesting fast moving field, so why not?

He worked on neat tank designs all through the 1920s and 1930s and never received a US contract.  His big success, sort of, was the T-34, which did use his suspension, and if you look at it is pretty obviously a Christie tank.

U.S. T3E2 tank.  Nope, we didn't adopt that.  Nor would there have been a really good reason to either.

Soviet pre war BT-7 light tank.  It's a Christie

As this would suggest, while we were basically ignoring tanks, European nations were not, and a lot of various tank designs were out there.  Some were good, some were bad, and hardly anyone really had a concrete idea of exactly how tanks would really be used in the future.  Probably the Soviets had the best grasp on it, quite frankly, leading up to World War Two.  Some American cavalrymen, who basically lacked tanks, grasped it as well.  And Heinz Guderian really grasped it.  He was a German.

German Schnelletruppen, fast troops, who were used to develop German armor tactics before the Germans had armor.

Guderian, and others developed mobile tactics but they really lacked tanks.  It was only in the final run up to World War Two did the Germans acquire really functional tanks.

The Germans started to build tanks by the mid 1930s, but as they had none, and as their production capaciity was very limited, the tanks they built were of limited type and really not all that useufl in real combat.  The first one, the Panzerkampfwagen 1, established the design for most German tanks for the rest of the war, but it only fielded a machinegun for a gun.  Pretty useless.  

Panzer I in Noraway.  Basically, it was a tracked armored car, not a real tank.

The Germans new the Panzer I wasn't great, and rapidly developed it into the Panzer II. But htat tank also was a really light tank.  It was a real tank, however, and the chassis established the basic chassis for most that would come after that. And the first thing to come after it was the Panzer III followed by the Panzer IV

 Panzer IVG.

No matter what people like to think, it was the Panzer III and the Panzer IV, which sported a 75mm gun, that were the real German tanks of World War Two.  They grossly outnumbered anything else thet Germans used, tank wise, and constituted the real armored threat posed by the Germans.

Burning Panzer IV

They were also the basic foundation for nearly everything else that was tank like, or sort of tank like, that the Germans used. As this isn't a history of the zillions of tank like things the Germans used (and I've omitted captured Czech tanks entirely, I'd note) I'll not go into that, other than to note that no matter what an American, English, Canadian, or Soviet soldier was likely to encounter, in terms of German armor, it was probably based on the Panzer III and it likely carried a 75mm rifle at hte most.

And it was a good design.

But it wasn't as good as the T-34. And it wasn't as good as the M4 Sherman.

Indeed, even the rather weird American design the M3 was regarded as pretty effective against the Panzer III and IV, and it doesn't look like it should be.


The M3.  It's weird.

Now, I'm not really going to sit here and praise the M3, which was a real throw back as a design, with its strange side mounted 75mm gun.  About the most that can be said for it, in my view, is that its armor protection was pretty good and that its gun worked well.  But what the real story is on it is that the US, Christie or no, was staring pretty much from scratch and that was a good thing as it turned out.




And it was a good thing as it spared the US from what European nations had to go through.  They all had tanks, but nobody really knew exactly how they'd' be used, so there was, in some countries,  like France, a plethora of tank designs combined with bad doctrine, or in others, like Germany, barely adequate tanks (at first) with good doctrine.

 M3 in British use.  The British used the M3 in combat more than the US, as the M3 was rapidly being replaced by the M4 by the time of Operation Torch.  Be that as it may, the US did still field M3s in North Africa and the Soviet Union used them at least as late as Kursk, the biggest tank battle in history.

Being an industrial giant, the US was able to skip the nifty but fairly useless light tanks that were supposed to be battlefield fighters (as opposed to scouting tanks, which are also really light) and go right for the useful medium tanks.  That meant we skipped the Christie suspension, for good or ill, and went for a chassis design that was used first in numbers in the M3 (and was first used in the M2 medium tank, a very rarely US tank that was around only in very small numbers very briefly).

 M4 in use by training crew, Ft. Knox. This photo was taken prior to any US tank action during World War Two.

Unit training with M3s and M4s.

Now, as noted, the British, who ended up using it more than we did, liked the M3 but it was rather obviously a throw back. But soon came the M4.  And the M4 was a really good tank.  It wasn't perfect, but it was really good, and for the most part it had the advantage on its real opponents.

M4A1 in North Africa.

The Sherman was highly transportable, something that was important in a global war.  It came equipped with a 75mm gun at first, which was perfectly adequate for taking on the Panzer III and IV.  It had good armor protection, at least as good as the flat armored Panzer III and IV it took on, and it was extremely mechanically reliable, which no German tank ever was.

 Common early cast hull production version of M4A1 Sherman.

So what about all the stories to the contrary.  Wasn't it a horrible flaming  nightmare?

No.

Tank combat is a horrible flaming nightmare.

That contributes to the myth of the M4 being a bad tank, and almost everything you hear about the M4 being a bad tank is, in fact, a myth.

Armored combat is incredibly horrific, if you are in it.  If your tank is penetrated by an enemy projectile, and any tank can be, the net results is a shower of molten steel inside the tank followed, in all probability, by a horrible flaming death.  If you have any doubt, I suggest you view the long version of the M4 and M26 duel with a German Tiger in Cologne, late war.  You can see a dazed Sherman crew escaping from a destroyed tank and you can watch a German tank commander burn to death on a Tiger, a tank that some tank fans think is a fantastic tank. 

Not pretty.

And given that, and given American expectations, the general belief is that any American tank ought to be 100% impervious to anything bad happening to its crew.  But that's not warfare.

Now, the Sherman was not a perfect tank.  It had a very high profile for one thing compared to the Panzer III and Panzer IV.  But it could and did match those tanks in combat and really was a better combat tank than  they were. And most German armor was made up of Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs.

But not all German tanks were IIIs and IVs, and that's contributed to the myth.

The Panzer III and Panzer IV served the Germans really well throughout the war.  However, on the Russian plains, after the Soviets got their act together, they were no match for the T-34 which not only was a great tank from the onset, it was improved continually by the Soviets throughout the war.  Tanking a basic  Christie light tank design and ramping it up massively, the T-34 was the first really modern tank.  It was revolutionary and nothing the Germans had was a match for it. So they reacted.

Disabled Tiger I that had the distinction of knocking out a M26 Pershing, the first Pershing to be knocked out in combat, even though the M26 was a better tank. After achieving that, this tank became disabled and had to be abandoned.  German tanks were frequently disabled.

In fairness, one of the reactions, the Tiger tank series, had been in development since before the war, and its design showed it.  But the T-34 made its fielding imperative.  The second reaction, the Panther, was a pure reaction to the T-34 and superficially resembles it in a bulbous fashion.

Panther knocked out in the Battle of the Bulge.

Panthers and Tigers were a huge problem for Sherman's and were particularly a problem for the original M4A1.. They grossly outgunned the original version of the Sherman which made it quickly plain that the 76mm gun which had been available, but basically not fielded, should have have been fielded. The 76mm gun was much more capable of taking on the armor of the German cat tanks than the 75mm, which basically wasn't.  And the Sherman was grossly outgunned by the excellent 75mm gun on the Panther, let alone the massive tank destroying 88mm gun of the Tiger.

It should be noted here, however that even the Germans weren't really capable of keeping up with the Soviets. The T-34/76 came out in 1940 with a 76mm gun.  35,000 of them were made.  In 1943 the Soviets introduced the T-34/85, of which 55,000 were made.  So even the highly celebrated Panther, which came into service the same year as the T-34/85, did not sport a gun that was as big as Soviet tank, but only sported one that was as large as the high velocity M4 Sherman.  FWIW, during the Korean War the M4 Sherman, by which time only the "Easy 8" variant equipped with the 76mm high velocity gun, routinely bested the T-34/85, although that can be explained in more than one way.  Also, as otherwise mentioned here, the later variants of the T-34 and the Sherman were basically identical in terms of armor thickness.

Anyhow, the British had anticipated German armor advances before they were fielded, which is why they'd adapted the Sherman to a heavier British 75 gun before the US really fielded them. That tank, the Sherman Firefly, wasn't perfect either but it proved fairly adept at taking on the heavier German tanks.

 Sherman Firefly, with its obviously much larger 76mm gun.






Moran, I'll note, doesn't like the Firefly.

But I do.

Anyhow we should have no doubt.  The Tiger and Panther were fully modern tanks.  If the T-34 isn't the first modern tank in the world, they surely are. The M4 wasn't.  It was a good World War Two generation tank.







So let's talk numbers.

Eh?

Yes, numbers.  Numbers mean a lot.

There were 1,347 Tigers built and about 6,000 Panthers. There were around 180,000 T-34s built, however.  About 50,000 Sherman's were built.  About 6,000 Panzer IIIs were built.  About 8,500 Panzer IVs were built.

 Loading a Sherman in the United States for shipment.  If you can't ship them, they don't do much good.

M4 on transport.  This tank has just about enough room to be shipped and that's about it.  It's  not like this ship was going to take on a M26.

While I hate to go down this road, there were also 6,406 M10 tank destroyers built by the US.  This takes us down a weird road, however, because if I discuss these quasi tanks, then I have to mention things like the German  Sturmgeschütz III, which is a type of turetless tank destroyer, of which 10,000 were built.  And it wasn't alone.  There was also the very heavy Jagdpanzer (hunting tank) of which slightly over 400 were built on the Tiger chassis.  And the US also built the M36 (about 2,300) and the M18 (2,500). The reason that I mention them is that Sherman's would have to tank on the Sturmgeschütz III while German tanks encountered the various American tank destroyers.

M18 in Germany, 1945.

M36 Tank Destroyer. the M36 fielded a 90 mm gun, giant for the time.  Most people would think this was a Sherman, as it has a Sherman hull.  But it isn't (and the turret has an open top).

M10 in Italy.

This tells a pretty significant story, but not a very clear one.

And what it basically tells us is that there weren't all that many Tigers, but more Panthers than you'd suspect, but also a lot of Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs and things based on Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs.

There were also a whole lot of T-34s. And as the Germans were fighting a whole lot of Soviets who were using a whole lot of T-34s, as well as Sherman's (yes, they used Sherman's) and M3s (even as late as Kursk) the Germans had massive constant armor demands in the East.

Which doesn't mean that there weren't armor demands in teh West as well, but the US, UK, Canada and Free French had a lot of Sherman's, as well as a selection of smaller numbers of British tanks (the British never stopped producing their own designs, even as they used large numbers of Sherman's).

Added to that, as Sherman's almost always worked, and a very high percentage of German tanks were broken down at any one time, the number becomes much more skewed.

So, yes, it would have been much better if all Sherman's had been equipped with the high velocity 76mm rifle by 1944.  And it would have been better yet, in a magical world, if just as many M26 Pershing's had been been available as M4s in 1944, but that requires a complete suspension of reality and technology.

 Canadian Ram Mk II, early variant.  Those who like to play "should have" with American tank production fail to appreciate that even though the United State's industrial capacity was vast, it was still sufficiently limited that the United States had to rely on Canada in part to help build adequate numbers of Shermans. Granted, that was in part because the Sherman was used by the United States, United Kingdom, France, Canada, Australia and the Soviet Union. Nonetheless, people who imagine that the US should have been making something else fail to appreciate that the US couldn't actually manufacture all the M4s required.  Beyond the Ram, at least the UK had special variants, with Canadian and American hulls, that were uniquely their own.

Which brings us to this uncomfortable point.

If you are an infantryman in France in August, 1944, and are looking out at field where two or three German tanks show up, and maybe one is a Tiger or Panther, would you rather have one or two, or even three, M26s show up, or ten M4s.

I think the answer that is pretty obvious.

And chances are high, even in that scenario, that the M4s will not be knocked out.  If some are, and war is about killing, let's not fool ourselves, it's probably not going to be more than two, and unlikely to be three.  And all the German tanks are likely to go down.

And that's really the calculation that had to be made.  Lots that worked well all the time, and were adequate almost all of the time, or very few that worked most of the time, and were super all of the time.

Well what about the claims cited by the opponent of the Sherman in the article cited above, that being:
Certainly, the Sherman was a decent design, simple to build in large numbers and maintain, easily transported, adaptable to multiple roles and mechanically reliable. But in the three most basic requirements of a decent tank — firepower, armour protection, and mobility — it fell down in two out of three.
Well, not so much, unless you are operating in a perfect world.

In terms of firepower, okay.  But you can blame the Army in Europe, not the tank's designers, on that.  Prior to June 6, 1944 the Army had designed  a version of the M4 that was as well gunned as any tank on the battlefield except for the Tiger.  The Tiger did indeed have a super heavy gun for the time, an 88, but it was also a heavy tank that didn't have eto be shipped by sea and it was not a paragon of mobility.  Indeed, the Tiger depicted above is a typical one.  It put itself out of action.

But  the US could have fielded a M4 with a 76mm gun, and ultimately did.  The British did as well.  And, and often forgotten, the US fielded three quasi tanks in addition to the  Sherman, and those tanks had no other role other than to hunt tanks.  The Sherman's role was to be a tank, and while in the popular imagination tanks only fight other tanks, that's never been true.

Armor protection?

The Sherman's armor protection is as heavy as the  T-34/85's, and the T-34/85 was the best tank of the war.  Even at that, the Army did introduce an up-armored variant of the M4, that being the M5, but it didn't stick around all that long.  Anyhow, the Sherman was more heavily armored than supposed, which bring us to the uncomfortable truth hat, armored with the good rifles of the late war period, any tank could turn another into a flaming oven.

Mobility?

Oh please.  The Sherman was more mobile than any of hte heavier German tanks.  And it actually worked almost all the time.  Most of hte German tanks sat around unworkable, and hence not very mobile, most of the time.

Well, what about
The U.S., Dr. Weigley noted, went all through the Second World War refusing “to develop, until too late to do much good, heavier tanks comparable to the German Tigers and Panthers, let alone the Royal Tiger or the Russian Stalin.
This is not true either. In fact, the US developed a tank that was better than the German cat tanks and probably the equal of the IS 1, but perhaps not the IS 2.

It'd have been great if the US could have fielded thousands of M26s.  For that matter, it would have been great if the US had introduced the B-36 during World War Two, and perhaps the P-80. But that's a fantasy.

In reality, there wasn't any way to ship thousands of M26s to Europe unless we were going to land on the continent in the spring of 1945, at which time we wouldn't have had to fight Tigers and Panthers at all, as we would have been met with T-34/85s in Normandy.  The entire concept that we could have fielded heavy tanks  in numbers just flatly wrong as it ignores production and shipping realities.

Which brings us back to the reality of combat.  People get killed.  And death in combat is violent and shocking.  It was far better to have that 50,000 Sherman's than maybe 10,000 M26s, or 5,000, or however fewer it would have been.  Is that comfort for anyone whose relative was killed when an 88 from a Tiger hit a Sherman?  No. But it might be for the infantrymen saved when rounds from three or four Sherman's went into a single Panther.

The prefect is the enemy of the good.  The M4 wasn't perfect, but it was better than it gets credit for being, and the best under the circumstances.



__________________________________________________________________________________

*I wonder if the author of these statements saw any of these films.  In none of them do a "column of Sherman's arrive in the nick of time" to save anyone.

Indeed, in A Bridge Too Far Sherman's are shown being fairly easily knocked out by anti tank guns, something that is fairly realistically (and rarely) portrayed in this film.  Sherman's are shown in thsi film, which is a highly accurate portrayal of the actual events of Operation Market Garden, as Sherman's were actually used by the British.  German tanks are shown in the film, but are not shown in action against Sherman's (which didn't happen much in that engagement), but are portrayed as being correctly fearsome (and are portrayed as contemporary German Leopard IIs).

In Band of Brothers Sherman's are depicted in a tank for German armor engagement, but frankly fairly accurately.  The problem here is that, most of the time, Sherman's were in fact more than good enough for the job, naysayers or not.

And in the Pacific, well shoot, darned near any allied tank was more than a match for any Japanese tank.  Sherman's, as well as M2s, were used in the Pacific and they were more than a match for anything the Japanese had to offer. . . in spades.

Roads to the Great War: Doughboy Basics: What Are the True Casualty Statis...

Roads to the Great War: Doughboy Basics: What Are the True Casualty Statis...: For at least the last 10 years, in my publications and public talks about the American Expeditionary Forces in that Great War, I&#...

Lex Anteinternet: Eh? Oh Cyber Monday

Lex Anteinternet: Eh? Oh Cyber Monday: I'd forgotten that Black Friday is followed by Cyber Monday. As I don't pay much attention to such things, I'd sort of dimly r...

Sunday, November 26, 2017

The National Hockey League Formed

 Birthplace of the NHL, the Windsor Hotel, in 1906.  It's an office building today.

There was hockey before that, and its a bit of a complicated story, but on this day in 1917 the National Hockey League was formed by representatives of the Ottawa, Quebec, and Montreal National Hockey Association clubs at the Windsor Hotel in Montreal.  The formation came about due to an intense dispute within the National Hockey Association, the prior organization, which soon ceased to exist with the creation of the NHL.

Sunday Morning Scene: Churches of the West: Our Lady Queen of Angels Catholic Church in Kula, Maui, Hawaii

Churches of the West: Our Lady Queen of Angels Catholic Church in Kula, Maui, Hawaii:


This is Our Lady Queen of Angels Church in Keokea, Maui Hawaii.  This church was opened in 1940 after a need for a new Catholic Church in the area was discerned in connection with a nearby sanatorium.  As it was centrally located, and had sufficient grounds, it became the mission church for two churches in the nearby region, those being St. James the Less and the unique Portuguese styled Holy Ghost Mission.

Saturday, November 25, 2017

Lex Anteinternet: REI tells the world to #OptOutside on Black Friday...

Lex Anteinternet: REI tells the world to #OptOutside on Black Friday...: Black Friday is, of course, the biggest single shopping day in the United States. But, there's been an increasing backlash about it in...

Lex Anteinternet: Lex Anteinternet: Lex Anteinternet: Distributist o...

Lex Anteinternet: Lex Anteinternet: Lex Anteinternet: Distributist o...: From a Prior Small Business Saturday: Lex Anteinternet: Lex Anteinternet: Distributist of the world unite!... : Lex Anteinternet: Distribu...

Best posts of the week of November 19, 2017

The best posts of the week of November 19, 2017:

No surprise, no shame, and the Old Standards

Shockingly young! Surprisingly old! Too young, too old! Well, nothing much actually changing at all. . . Marriage ages then. . . and now. . and what does it all mean?

More Creepiness and the creepy things it tells us.

Our last item on the eruption of the exposition of creeps in our society was here:
Lex Anteinternet: No surprise, no shame, and the Old Standards:

The number falling, and the oddity of it all, seems to go on and on.  Added to this list recently have been George Bush (tush pinching, apparently),  Charlie Rose and Al Franken.  And of course the Roy Moore saga just goes on and on (when will that election ever arrive?). I wrote about this a couple of weeks ago in my entry entitled Creeps; which started off:
I noted a couple of things in that article which  could perhaps be expanded on a bit, and should.

The first is that Michael Reagan's confidant prediction that there'd be more women coming forward on Franken proved correct.  We're now up to four.   Tweeden's event has been the worst so far, and hopefully will remain so.  Otherwise Franken seems to have felt he had license to grab the female tush, uninvited, at least as to three other subjects.

None of which has stopped Ruth Marcus from defending him for the second week in a row.  Last week her column started off:
The national debate over sexual harassment and sexual assault has reached an important and precarious moment as it shifts from what behavior is acceptable to what punishment is warranted. Having underreacted for too long, are we now at risk of overreacting?
In fairness, I think she might have been right on that, at least to a degree.  I'm not going to regard tush grabbing, inappropriate though it be, as a national crisis.  Indeed, in pondering it I can recall a certain female lawyer I worked against early in my career who loved to drop in inappropriate terms of endearment and gynecological comments in order to attempt to embarrass young male attorneys and I know of one male attorney (not in our firm, by the way) who makes slightly suggestive comments to female lawyers in an effort to rattle them.  Well, to heck with them, but I don't think any exposes are warranted, and I don't think the senior (and likely by now senile) Bush's wondering hands nor Franken's are that much of a national crisis, although I think Franken has otherwise been pretty gross.

This week Marcus' column is entitled:

Al Franken’s defenders are right to speak up

Is she right?  Maybe, but only if we're going to agree that defenders of the various people in the public eye right now all deserve to have their defenders aired, no matter who they are.  That is, if Franken's defenders can defend him in spite of tush grabbiness, well I suppose that Moore's can for what is very clearly worse.  A standard is a standard, after all.

I.e, there shouldn't be a political litmus test for who gets their defense aired and who doesn't, not matter how icky their behavior is alleged to have been.

Speaking of really icky behavior, columnist Laura Hollis went after Harvey Weinstein in a big way, detailng some of his big spending effort to cover up his misdeeds.  Suffice it to say any reading of them makes Weinstein's statement;
I came of age in the ‘60s and ‘70s, when all the rules about behavior and workplaces were different. That was the culture then.
even more absurd than it already was.  

Hollis actually ties the latest creep eruption to the Democratic Party, maintaining that its now dead.  In spite of the claims the GOP is dead, I'd note that Time recently ran this as a cover story recently as well, proclaiming it dead for other reasons.  I think Hollis' claim that the wolf like libidos of some figures in Hollywood equate with the death of the Democratic Party is a huge stretch, but there is a slight point to it in that people of both parties are really sick of the close ties between political elites and other "elites" including Hollywood elites.  Both Sanders and Trump really picked up in that during the last election and Democrats have been dim enough about it that they've let the moldy oldies of the Democratic Party keep on running it, tainted in every way though they be.  I mean, after all, if you can recall when the Beatles! were a hot new band, you probably aren't a hot new anything.

Otherwise, it seems to me that both the Democrats and the Republicans both manage to look like they have a bunch of figures lurking around East Colfax in Denver.  Ick.

On Weinstein's weird, weird claim that he was going to channel his anger ("Aaargggg" thought poor Harvey, "now I might have to keep my pants on!  I'm so angry") towards battling the National Rifle Association ("Argggg, Wayne. .  I have my pants off and I'm coming your way"), the producer of Wind River yanked control of that film away from Weinstein, not wanting the independent film to go down in an explosion of Weinstein pantsless, braless, creepiness news.  I can't blame him, but its interesting in that I hadn't realized that Wind River had a Weinstein connection.

I liked Wind River and gave it the thumbs up here, but I'll note that it rivals The Wild Bunch in its use of firearms violence.  Indeed, frankly it rivals The Wild Bunch in regards to violence in general, and for all its antiquity, The Wild Bunch remains a shockingly violent film.  On that, however, it comes pretty close to being about as pro firearms as a story of its type can be.  The solitary nature of life in the west and the fact that "This isn’t the land of backup, Jane. This is the land of 'you’re on your own'." is pretty much right and explains why people here think self relying on their own marksmanship is probably a better bet than relying on the distant police.  Anyhow, I note this as its interesting how Hollywood makes millions on grossly exaggerated depictions of firearms use in every sense, but then will, so often, come out against individuals owning firearms.  I'd accord them more respect if they did with the same things they otherwise positively portrayed but which many question.  I.e., if they came out and said, "you know, living like we show in sitcoms will probably get you poor as well as a STD. . . don't do it".  But no, as Harvey and Franken show, they're fine with really immoral behavior in general.  Take off  the pants, grab the boobs, pet the tush, and snort the cocaine (Franken on that last one) , but for goodness sakes, keep your hands of those guns.  Hmmmm

Well, to quote a Hollywood item, Tombstone:
It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds

Lex Anteinternet: Lex Anteinternet: Distributist of the world unite!...

From a Prior Small Business Saturday:
Lex Anteinternet: Lex Anteinternet: Distributist of the world unite!...: Lex Anteinternet: Distributist of the world unite! National Small B... : Saturday, November 29, is National Small Business Saturday, a hol...
Which is, this year, today.

Friday, November 24, 2017

Shockingly young! Surprisingly old! Too young, too old! Well, nothing much actually changing at all. . . Marriage ages then. . . and now. . and what does it all mean?



 Eleanor Randolph Wilson in her wedding dress.  1914.  She was a daughter of President Wilson and would have been about 25 years old at the time this photograph was taken.

This is one of those topics that I started a really long time ago, and then it became sort of bizarrely relevant to current headlines, or maybe not.  

Anyhow, I thought of it, and determined to expand it out a bit, although perhaps I couldn't be doing so at a worse time, given that the current focus on marriage ages has turned sort of bizarre corner in the recent news. 

 Turkish bride and her attendants, 1914.

Indeed, this whole topic has been so much so much in current conversation, that an off line email conversation made me reconsider a lot of this topic, even though doing so makes a person feel a little odd and icky doing so.  But first we will start with what I originally started to start with, which is a link to this:

Median Age at Marriage–Then and Now

This really short article on A Hundred Years Ago has some really interesting information in it.  And some of that really interesting information just isn't what we'd expect.  The entry was part of a series on a century old diary, and its starts out:
 Bridesmaids, 1916.

I knew that the median age a century ago was not 18 years old, but I think that assumption is super common.  Indeed, I think that a lot of people operate under the assumption that back a century, or more, ago people married really young.

Let's take a look at that, and we'll start off with the article we linked in.
I was surprised to learn that in 1910 the median age at first marriage  was 21.6 for females and 25.1 for males.
The median marriage age steadily decreased until the middle of the 20th century. In 1950, it was 20.3 for females and 22.8 for males.
The trend then reversed and by 2007, it had increased to 25.0 for females and 26.7 for males–and preliminary estimates for 2010 suggest that it has continued to climb to about 26 for females and 28 for males.
Let's take a look at that, as I don't think that's what people expect at all.

 An early destination wedding?  A wedding, coming up on a century ago, in the Luray Caverns.

The median age for women was 21.6 in 1910. The same year, the median age for men was 25.1.

At the time the author wrote this entry, 2010, the median age for women was 25.0.  The median age for men was 26.7.  Data suggested that it had crept up a little over 1.7 years for women and 1.3 years for men.

Okay, that is a difference, but is that what you were expecting?

I doubt it, unless you are quite familiar with these statistics.

So, over century, the average age for "first marriages" has gone up a little under four years for women, and a little over 1.5 years for men.  Not that much of a climb.

 Wedding reception, 1907.  Doesn't look all that different from a lot of them you might see in a fancier wedding now.  This one is a bit unusual for the time, and was probably in a higher economic class, as the men are wearing tuxedos, which was not the standard for all weddings until relatively recently.

And that says quite a bit.

Additionally, we might note, the age differences between married couples tends not to be vast, at least for these first marriages. Early on, the men were a little over three years older than the women they married.  Now, a century later, they're almost two years older.  Not much of a change.

Particularly if we consider the vast societal, and moreover economic, changes during that century.

 Polish bride and groom, 1920.

We need, however, to first also take in mind that that these are averages. And as a median is an average, it's possible to arrive at these same results by having big swings in the numbers.  I.e., these numbers may reflect a really tight group, or they may reflect a really broad one.  The numbers themselves don't quite reveal which is which.  I'm taking them to be fairly tight, but I could be well off the mark.

But note, if this is correct, not only is the common assumption "people married so much younger" somewhat open to criticism, the assumption that "people are marrying older and older" is as well.  I suspect that both of those comments are in fact true, in context, but the numbers don't really adequately support it over the past century, and the changes, particularly after other factors are added in, may not actually be statistically significant.

 Portrait of very young Jewish bride, Ottoman Empire, 1870s.

Let's take a table that somebody else has generated and see if it changes things at all:

Year --- Men --- Women
2015 ----29.2 ----27.1
2010 --- 28.2 --- 26.1
2000 --- 26.8 --- 25.1
1990 --- 26.1 --- 23.9
1980 --- 24.7 --- 22.0
1970 --- 23.2 --- 20.8
1960 --- 22.8 --- 20.3
1950 --- 22.8 --- 20.3
1940 --- 24.3 --- 21.5
1930 --- 24.3 --- 21.3
1920 --- 24.6 --- 21.2
1910 --- 25.1 --- 21.6
1900 --- 25.9 --- 21.9
1890 --- 26.1 --- 22.0

Okay, that doesn't take us a lot further back, but it also produces some interesting results.  If we go all the way back to 1890 what we find is that the median age for men was 26.1, and that it then went down a year by 1910.  It continued to go down until 1960, at which time it was 22.8 years.  That really doesn't fit with our picture at all.  If we'd been making this same calculation mid 20th Century, we'd be noting that marriage ages were going down.  Now, if this table is correct, the age for men is 29.2, way up from 1960, and about three years up from 1890.  From 1890 on, however, it took all the way until 1990, 100 hundred years, for the age for men to rise back up to what it had been in 1890.  For that matter, it took from 1890 until 1980 for the age to rise back up to 22.0 years for women, although its climbed dramatically since then. . . maybe.

 Wedding party portrait, 1909.  Again, this couple must have been from an upper economic class, given the dress.

For women ages held fairly steady in the very early 20s, but still hit bottom in 1950 to 1960, when it was just a little over 20 years old.  It's way up to a little over 27 years old now, and that's quite a jump.

So this trend must be universal, going back, sort of kind of.

Not so much.

Let's look at 1850.

In 1850 the average marriage age for men was 28.

Um. . . 28?  Yes, we just climbed up over that in 2010.

And for women it was 26.  We got back to that in 2010 also.

It took us 130 years for the average "first" marriage age to get back to what it had been in 1850.

 Balkan wedding, 1919.  American officer is giving the bride away.

Hmm. . . . .

Now this gets harder and harder to do as you go back further and further, but let's take a look even further back.

 "Francis LeBaron and Mary Wilder during their wedding ceremony, with many guests, in a room, possibly in the magistrate's residence, officiated by a clergyman; includes two remarques, at bottom center is a bust portrait of Mary Wilder, facing left, and on the lower left is a scene with Dr. Francis LeBaron as a physician attending to a sick person."  LoC.

England, 1700s; Women: 25-26; Men: 30
New England, early 1600s; Women: Teens; Men: 26
New England, late 1600s; Women: 20; Men: 25
Pennsylvania Quakers, 1600s; Women: 22; Men: 26
Pennsylvania Quakers, 1700s; Women: 23; Men: 26
Rural South Carolina, 1700s; Women: 19; Men: 22

Wow.  None of this meets our expectations at all.

Basically, if we go back and looked at the United  States and the UK, and we take into account nothing but median ages, things have not really changed all that much.  For the most part, in North America, going back about 300 years, median ages have been in the upper half of the 20s.  Women have generally fallen in the lower half of the 20s.  Ages have climbed in recent years, but they've actually gone up and down over the years.

 Jewish wedding, Ottoman Empire, 1870s.  The families are signing a formal agreement in the context of the wedding.

So what's going on?

Well, in some ways not that much.

Truly.

The long historical data basically suggests that even over time and change, in European American culture, men tend to get married in the second half of their 20s and women in the first half.

The trend line does move, up and down, and that means that external things influence this.

So what about all the stories to the opposite?

Well, let's consider historical outliers.  But before we do that, let's consider the current outliers in our own statistics.

 Wedding at Episcopal church in Jerusalem, 1940s.

But before we do that, let's remember that when we are dealing with statistics this consistent, the outliers don't make the story.

In other words, there may truly be a lot of nothing going on in this story. Things, quite frankly, may not have changed that much.  Here's an area in which you might truly be able to look back in the past and figure that your life might have played out much the same way.  Or maybe (and at least somewhat probably) not.

Okay.  Outliers in our current statistics.

One thing we're going to have to do in this is look at economics as part of this story, as well as acceptable social conventions.  Indeed, I argued just the other day that our current social conventions are messed up, and I mean it. That taps into this story in a way.

If we look at the current stats, men at age  29.2 and women at 27.1, we have to consider that these statistics would be at least somewhat depressed if we used the 1917 definitions.

 Bedouin wedding procession, early 20th Century.

Up until after World War Two cohabitation was largely illegal in most states and extremely shameful everywhere in European American and European society. The only people you really saw cohabitate tended to be on the far edges of society.  People so down and out that the statistics didn't count for them, or so Bohemian that they didn't.  And in many instances when that occurred the presumption of the Common Law marriage was presumed to exist.

Now, Common Law marriages still exist in most states, I think, but they do not exist in mine per se (we'll recognize common law marriages that are contracted elsewhere).  Common law marriages have never been as common as presumed, but they have been widely recognized at least in societies that use English Common Law.

This matters in terms of our current statistics as quite a few instances of "cohabitation" would either be deemed common law marriages under the pre World War Two law or they'd be regarded as illegal arrangements.  Post World War Two many would still be regarded as common law marriages, at first, or would be regarded as shameful. Now it's become, and in my view its not a good thing, extremely common.

 Chinese wedding party, 1909.

It's so common in fact that what at first was an edgy behavior mostly done by middle class rebellious youth has become pretty widely accepted to the point where the old instances of the common law marriage have come to apply to them in some ways, and indeed in many ways.  Over the last ten years, for example, I knew one cohabitating couple in which at least the female in the arrangement simply introduced the male members as her "husband". That would be sufficient for a common law marriage to be recognized under the old law (they in fact later married).  Another couple I know is engaged, has a child, and have had a very long standing relationship. They're in their early 30s, but the relationship stretches back to their early 20s and would likely have been regarded as a common law marriage, if we looked at it in 1917, or they would have certainly been legally compelled to marry quite early on.  Another couple I know is in their late 30s but again has been living in such an arrangement for a decade or more.  And another one I know has been engaged in it for a shorter period but again have undertaken things that would have caused a common law marriage to have been recognized earlier on.  And to show how even the people who are engaged in such relationships are confused by what they mean, I recently heard a man in one such relationship try to describe another man in one by what he was in relation to the female object of that second union, and ended u using the word "husband".

 This photograph of a native Alaskan wedding party almost certainly depicts a party at a Russian Orthodox wedding service.

The point on this is that this is that, because marriage is a natural institution (people familiar with some bodies of law will be familiar with the term "natural marriage") people tend to re-create its incidents even when they are attempting not to.  So, if we look at the men at age  29.2 and women at 27.1, if we include common law marriages and ersatz, pseudo and near common law marriages, that number is actually lower.  Probably quite a bit lower.

Indeed, we'd have to depress these ages for every decade since the 1970s as this practice became more accepted.  If we did, my guess (and its just that) is that the ages would remain about where they were in 1980.

When we get beyond that, what we tend to find is that we have about a ten year period, from 20 to 30 years age, when "first marriages" are normally contracted for men and women, but that those ages slide around, up and down, for a variety of reasons.

 Bedouin wedding, Syria, 1940s

And I suspect that those reasons are fairly consistent.  Economic and societal reason are primary factors, over the ages, but often very different economic and societal factors.  So the forces that impact this are the same, and different, at the same time.

Currently, we've been seeing the restoration of economic forces that most people in our current era did not experience, but which are a bit of the historical norm, at least for men.  It's taking a long time for men to establish themselves economically now, and indeed due to the entry of women into the work force (which we'll deal with in a minute) its also taking a long time for women to do the same.

This has been going on longer than people recognize and I suspect that its something that can be traced at least back to the 1980s.  And in this context, its interesting to note that marriage ages for men climbed from just about 23 years of age in 1950 to just about 25 years of age in 1980, and then to 26 years of age in 1990.

In 1950 American men still lived in an era when a high school degree, which they normally acquired at age 17 or 18, could gain entry to the work force at a beginning, but real, level.  A bachelor's degree, normally obtained at that time at age 22, guaranteed entry into the white collar world.  By age 22 men had likely more often than not (but not always, these are statistics) met the woman they were likely to marry and by age 22 they were established enough to get married, more often than not.

Now, not all did.  Some married later (and we'll get to that in a moment) and some younger, but you can see how the general trend worked.

 Bride portrait, about 1910.

By the 1980s, however, this was much less the case.  Bachelors degrees that had taken four years now often took five.  And a bachelors degree was a much more dicey proposition in terms of employment.  By 1990 this was even more the case, and by 2000 many bachelors degrees did not guarantee employment at all. So this meant that men who had entered career fields at 22, in the 50s, were not entering them until 25 or 26, at the earliest, a couple of decades later, which pretty much matched the rise in marriage ages.   Now, with even advance degrees like law not offering immediate employment opportunities that stage of life is often pushed off to age 30 or even older.

The concept of somebody being young, we'd note, has also risen.  In 1930 a person who was 30 wasn't a kid.  Now, perhaps they are.

When we look back further this is all the more evident.  If we look at hard economic times, like the 1890s, men and women both pushed the age of marriage back.  When economic times were really good, like the 1950s and 1960s, the opposite was true.  Geographically this is also evident.  When we look at England of the 1700s the average age was about 30, while it was about 26 in North America.  People's prospects were generally better in North America than they were in England.

 Wartime wedding of Australian service members in Jerusalem.

When you add in women, the same is also evident, but the pressures are different.  Up until the 1930s or so, as we've written about before, most women remained in their parents households until they married.  Their labor was needed, but if you look at writings from women of that age, they often strongly desired to get married just to get out of their parents' homes.  While it would be going a ways back, the 1700s, the writings of Jane Austen, who of course was herself a late 18th Century and early 19th Century figure, and an unmarried woman, this comes across well.  In Pride and Prejudice, for example, one figure marries simply because she's a burden on her parents, past the average marriage age (late 20s in the case of the figure in the novel), and wants to keep her own home.  The marriage prospects of all of the Bennet sisters in the novel are of utmost concern to her parents as they will not inherit an estate and will be subject to economic disaster if they do not marry.   The portrayal is dramatic, but not really greatly different from contemporary writings of the time involving people in similar situations.

What this tended to mean is that women always married a bit younger than men, but never as young as some seem to think.  As a rule, prior to mid century, and even some time after that, the fact that their husband was established and they were moving from one domestic employment to another operated in regards to that.  That is, for example, if we look at 1920, they tend to average just over 21 years of age and were marrying men who were just under 25, which would mean that by that time they'd been living as adult women at home, as a rule, for several years and were marrying men who were a couple of years at least into what would likely be their lifetime employment.  Situations vary, but that would have been relatively stable.

 Wedding of officer of the German fighting ship Emden.  The ship grounded early in World War One so I don't know what happened to the subjects.

Figuring out what was going on in 1970, when women hit the floor age, wise at just under 21 is a little harder to figure. Their spouses averaged at just over 23.  So it would seem that some of the same factors were at work, but that women, who were no longer needed at home for domestic employment, but who hadn't yet been subject to the pressure of "must have a career" were marrying fairly young in relative terms.  Women may have actually hit the height of their freedom in real terms about that time.

After 1970s a new era increasingly took over in which women were now subject to increased expectations that they had to have a "career" just like men.  As that developed, they same pressure that they establish themselves in that career really built. Today that pressure is full on.  With that in mind, that "first marriage" age for women is now up to 27 is no surprise, they're enduring the same thing that men are.

So what's that leave us with? Well, for most people, marriage ages haven't changed as much as we commonly think, as first marriages are generally contracted older than we think they are, and beyond that, economic and social pressures have an influence on that.

 Just married.  1943.

Social pressures?

What am I talking about here?  I only addressed economic pressures.

Well, on to social concerns, or perhaps I should say cultural concerns. These too have historically had an impact on marriage ages, but they're outliers in a way.

Consider for example the Irish.  The news in Ireland is that marriage ages are up, and now the first age for men and women is now in the 30s (although there may be a statistical glitch in this that makes the data a bit flawed).  The average age for women, in Ireland, is 33 and for men, 35.

But in reality, the average age in Ireland, and amongst Irish Americans, has always been high.  Men have crowed or surpassed age 30 routinely for as long as the statistics have been taken, and traditionally women were in their late 20s. There were strong economic reasons for this for centuries, but its also now a strongly cultural matter that has only changed marginally.  "Young Irish bride" is a category that doesn't even really exist.  Indeed, under the law of Ireland, a person under 21 years of age is a minor and marriages in that age group are regarded as under aged, which they would not be in the US.  Ireland allows marriages with legal provisions down to 16, which is actually a higher age than most US states ultimately have (I don't know what it is in my state, but at least according to a sign that was once up in the courthouse it was something like down to age 15 with parents permission.)

Indeed, my own family is somewhat of an example of this as my parents, who both had Irish heritage, didn't marry until they were both in their 30s.  They'd fit in nicely with the current Irish statistics.  I'm not sure how old my mother's parents were, but I know that they were more or less engaged as a couple for an extremely long time while my grandfather worked to get his feet on the ground economically.  I think, therefore, that they were likely around 30 when they were married.  I was 31 at the time of our wedding.

 

Well what about the opposite, "young" marriages? Are there cultures in the United States where this is common?  Well, not really any mainstream ones really.

There are some where the ages are slightly younger than the average, but they're only slightly younger.  Mormons, for example, marry statistically younger, but the median ages are only a couple of years younger than the national average.  By observation, this makes sense as we tend to see Mormon couples in fact be a couple of years younger than what we'd otherwise find.  While, by observation, Mormon dating practises are dramatically different than the American cultural norm, that isn't translating into really young brides as some people sometimes tend to think it does.

Some recent immigrant cultures do tend towards young marriages, particularly young brides, but those amount to statistical outliers and may not be statistically significant.  If they are, they are something that has existed throughout American history and have probably pushed the average marriage ages down, statistically, for a long time.  Some American Hispanic cultures had very young marriage ages, compared to the overall population, at one time for example.  The same is true of Italian Americans.  Marriages down into the teenage years were not uncommon in either culture, at one time, but they are now.  As the overall percentage of the population such groups represent is always a minority, the impact on overall statistics would be small.  Having said that, I've known at least one deceased New Mexican person who was married at about age 14 to a husband who was only a couple of years older, in the 1930s, and an Italian American couple that was 16 years old, in the 40s, when they they were married. FWIW, the marriages worked and were successful.

So what about the ones that are always the source of myth and rumor? You know, 30 year old guy marries 14 year old girl. That type of thing.

Well that was never common.

And it was particularly not common for a male "first" marriage.

Which takes us to second marriages, or rather a marriage where one of the two participants had been married previously. This is, I suspect, where we pick up these stories more often than not.

A real factor in the story of marriage in prior centuries was female mortality.  The female death rate was very high, often due to death giving birth.  Women wanted to be married, but at the same time its notable that the basic incidents of marriage could be lethal to women, and frequently were. 

What that meant was that the number of widowers was once very high. For that matter, there were once a lot of widows was very high as well.  The dynamics of this had a real impact on "second" marriage ages.

Today, there are more women than men, as male mortality is higher.  That's always been true to a degree, but if we go back prior to the mid 19th Century we'll find that this was not always the case. Female mortality was quite high.  As a result of this, it's not uncommon at all to find examples of men who were married three or so times and never due to divorce. Their prior wives had just all died.

None of that had an impact on "first marriages", and it didn't always have an impact on second marriages either.  Generally, given a choice, men tend to marry at or near their own ages, or within a decade of it (going down, usually, not up).  But for second marriages, this does begin to break apart.

For one thing, some men will simply look down towards first marriageable age no matter what.  Its not hard to find examples of that now, and I can think of at least one such example readily myself.  But beyond that, if a man had means at all, and his spouse died, he likely was in the position of having to hire female assistance to take care of his young children, and that assistance ends up explaining a lot of young brides.

As we've already discussed, women, prior to the mid 20th Century, normally worked in their parents homes until they married.  This wasn't the case for those who were forced to work outside the home for economic reasons, however.  Some women worked their entire lives as "domestics".  But some just started off their lives that way.  That is, they were surplus labor at home in a home that was better off with them employed outside the home.  Often these women were in fact girls.
 

Employed, as they sometimes were, in the home of a widower, who likely wasn't really all that old, and taking care of his children, at some point, practicality and familiarity took over.  This wasn't exactly a love match per se.  The man probably needed the labor, but probably also had some affection for the subject bride. The bride had a family that benefited from her leaving home, and what she'd be doing in the household of her new husband wasn't dramatically different from what she was doing otherwise, but somewhat more stable.

Indeed, you can find lots of examples, sometimes upset examples, of older children being really upset by a father "marrying down".  I can think of one such example of that myself in which a highly educated  man had been married to a highly educated woman, who died. The second wife was one of the maids.


Another example of this, although not a good one due to the conditions, is that of the parents of T. E. Lawrence, i.e. Lawrence of Arabia.  Lawrence's father was Sir Thomas Chapman and was married to a woman of equal rank who was one year older than he was. But Chapman took up with the governess of his children with his wife, who was fifteen years his junior. A better historical example, although still obviously rather problematic, would be that of Sally Hemmings, who became the mistress of Thomas Jefferson after the death of Jefferson's wife, and her half sister, Martha (who herself had been married prior to Jefferson but who had been widowed.  Of interest here, Martha had been 18 years old at the time of her first marriage, her husband had been 22, but Sally was in her mid teens when she became the enslaved mistress and perhaps near spouse of Jefferson (the dynamics of this are, suffice it to say, rather odd and problematic).

This is only one variant of that, of course. Poverty and security, in an age before any social welfare system existed at all, forced some people into relationships that were not only extreme in our view, but likely were extreme at the time.  They'd not arise now, however, as the economic pressures that gave rise to them just don't exist.




Which I suppose takes us up to the odd outliers we see in the news now and then today.  When we hear things like the Roy Moore story, or read about another Duggar getting married in a nearly arranged marriage, these are not only unusual, but in fact cross over into odd.

So, what's the overall story here? Well, there is one, but it's not the one that people expect.  Average marriage ages have changed, in fact, not hardly at all.  Where we think we see some change it's often because of economic and statistical factors that we don't quite appreciate.



  Yes, this is the third (now fourth) time I've run this photo.  I just like it.  Two young couples.  Migrant farm workers in Louisiana and their children, 1939.

So there's a story here, to be sure.  But maybe a lot less of one than we'd suppose, and its influenced by factors that we often don't really grasp, while we analyze ones that perhaps get more attention than they deserve.

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Related threads:

Courting

Et Ux*: A legal and societal history of marriage

Today In Wyoming's History: February 2: Common Law Marriages

For First Time in Modern Era, Living With Parents Edges Out Other Living Arrangements for 18- to 34-Year-Olds. Generations: Part Three of Three