The other day I ran across a webiste called "JD Underground". I was
actually trying to research a legal topic at the time. I don't frequent
the legal blogs, and don't feel there's much of a reason to, and that
would include that one, which seems sort of snarky and whiny.
Be that as it may, I ran across this interesting, perhaps stark, comment on a thread which principally dealt with lawyers looking back at having entered the law, and people entering the law:
Be that as it may, I ran across this interesting, perhaps stark, comment on a thread which principally dealt with lawyers looking back at having entered the law, and people entering the law:
The brainwashing is so thorough. It cannot be undone. It was drilled into our heads since we were little, and no amount of contrary evidence can eviscerate the persistent belief that education leads to improvement.
I have a relative in a very lucrative police job. He makes, conservatively, 170k a year with overtime. His pension will be a minimum of 90k a year when he retires (before 50). He will also have healthcare paid in full for life.
Now, said person did not go to college, and said person dodged the bullet. In fact, he specifically decided against going to college and/or LS because the work was boring to him.
As you may suspect, this person knows 2 successful solo attorneys who make 250k a year (these guys also came from money). (Let’s forget about the fact that if you factor in his total compensation, he beats these guys hand over fist). Urgo, he tells me I am lazy and not working hard enough. He attributes all my problems to a lack of experience, and he tells me my problems are due to laziness and a lack of experience.
I could try to tell him all day that, despite my f’ed up situation, I am in a better position than most young grads, that I make more money, that I have better hours, etc. Not penetrating. Even when I point out OWS, all the newspaper articles, all the statistical and anecdotal evidence, it doesn’t matter.
I asked him if he would try to put his kids on the same path if they did not excel in school, and he almost bit my head off. He is going to send his kids to college no matter what else he sees because of those 2 solo attorneys he knows, and a handful of other successful professionals he knows. I suspect by that time, not only will being a lawyer be a bad bet, but being a doctor will not be a good idea as well.
This guy cannot say to himself that his superiors probably make close to and over 250k (they do, it’s a fact), and that the chances of that happening are better for someone than entering white collar America, particularly LS because he has been brainwashed since birth. Even though he built a great life for himself by receiving mercy from society in the form of collective bargaining and a strong union, he will never acknowledge it, which will serve as a detriment to him and everyone else.
Similarly, we all received the same brainwashing, it will stick for life, and we cannot kick it even though we know better, and even though we did not dodge the bullet. It’s a fact.
That's a pretty
bitter comment, but although its extreme (I don't recall any brainwashing in law school at all) there some truth to it. This fellow has
a close relative who can't stand the idea that his lawyer relative
makes less than he does, works more, and has a much less assured
future. And that fellow is making sure that his own kids do not follow
his easier path in life.
I see that all the time. And it is very similar to what this fellow notes. People just don't believe that lawyers actually work, and that most of them don't get rich. And if they want to talk to you about your job, they'll reject any suggestion that their preconceived notions aren't wholly correct. It might even make them mad.
Oddly enough, even before I stumbled into this comment, something akin to it was sort of on my mind anyhow, due to a Christmas Card we received this past week. A relative of my wife sent her their annual card. In it was the report that her daughter, a second year law student, was "working hard but it will be worth it".
Now, by way of background, when this girl suddenly announced her intention to go to law school to her parents, her mother emailed me about that career choice purporting to seek advice. I was extremely reluctant to reply at all. I don't like to give career advice in that context, I don't really know the girl, and it puts me in a spot that I don't really want to be in. How would I know what she wanted to know and how would I know if I thought she was well suited for the law or not? Still, given the relationship, I did reply. Basically my advice was that she should speak to a trusted lawyer she knows about the actual practice, that it involved very long hours, very hard work, and there was no glamour to it. This provoked a response as it obviously wasn't what she intended to hear. She assured me that she had spoken to some lawyers she knew, and then had some questions about "International Law", the intended major.
Now, International Law doesn't even exist. Oh, I know it exists as a theoretical law, but international law is now, and always has been, the policies dictated by the strongest nations on the globe. Can Costa Rica sue China and expect success? Hah! No, that's a fiction, and no doubt most law students specializing in International Law meet the same fate that those who expect to practice Environmental Law do, they end up practicing what ever law they can when they first get out of school.
And that's becoming a problem, as the US has a glut of lawyers. There are a lot of unemployed lawyers right now, even taking into consideration that attrition of new lawyers is over 25%. It's a flooded field.
I again pointed these things out, and she politely cut off the conversation at that point, to my relief. I later learned that the mother was encouraging law school, so no doubt my gentle suggestions to investigate the actual nature of the practice, which wasn't dissuading her or encouraging her to to anything other than become informed, was completely unwelcome. I was supposed to glamourize it.
Oh well. To a large extent people are going to to what they want to do, until they do what they have to do, a state in life that arrives distressingly soon. But in part what we think we should do is dictated by societal norms and culture, one of which says, in this day and age, that a university career must be pursued and certain jobs are good jobs that pay very well no matter what the reality of that situation may be.
I see that all the time. And it is very similar to what this fellow notes. People just don't believe that lawyers actually work, and that most of them don't get rich. And if they want to talk to you about your job, they'll reject any suggestion that their preconceived notions aren't wholly correct. It might even make them mad.
Oddly enough, even before I stumbled into this comment, something akin to it was sort of on my mind anyhow, due to a Christmas Card we received this past week. A relative of my wife sent her their annual card. In it was the report that her daughter, a second year law student, was "working hard but it will be worth it".
Now, by way of background, when this girl suddenly announced her intention to go to law school to her parents, her mother emailed me about that career choice purporting to seek advice. I was extremely reluctant to reply at all. I don't like to give career advice in that context, I don't really know the girl, and it puts me in a spot that I don't really want to be in. How would I know what she wanted to know and how would I know if I thought she was well suited for the law or not? Still, given the relationship, I did reply. Basically my advice was that she should speak to a trusted lawyer she knows about the actual practice, that it involved very long hours, very hard work, and there was no glamour to it. This provoked a response as it obviously wasn't what she intended to hear. She assured me that she had spoken to some lawyers she knew, and then had some questions about "International Law", the intended major.
Now, International Law doesn't even exist. Oh, I know it exists as a theoretical law, but international law is now, and always has been, the policies dictated by the strongest nations on the globe. Can Costa Rica sue China and expect success? Hah! No, that's a fiction, and no doubt most law students specializing in International Law meet the same fate that those who expect to practice Environmental Law do, they end up practicing what ever law they can when they first get out of school.
And that's becoming a problem, as the US has a glut of lawyers. There are a lot of unemployed lawyers right now, even taking into consideration that attrition of new lawyers is over 25%. It's a flooded field.
I again pointed these things out, and she politely cut off the conversation at that point, to my relief. I later learned that the mother was encouraging law school, so no doubt my gentle suggestions to investigate the actual nature of the practice, which wasn't dissuading her or encouraging her to to anything other than become informed, was completely unwelcome. I was supposed to glamourize it.
Oh well. To a large extent people are going to to what they want to do, until they do what they have to do, a state in life that arrives distressingly soon. But in part what we think we should do is dictated by societal norms and culture, one of which says, in this day and age, that a university career must be pursued and certain jobs are good jobs that pay very well no matter what the reality of that situation may be.
4 comments:
I don't have much to add, except that it seems like the commenter is making the same mistake his law enforcement relative is making by assuming that going to college and/or law school will make it easier for his children to be "successful".
The commenter is equating the higher salary/ early retirement/pension of his relative with being successful without knowing anymore about what a career in law enforcement actually is which is almost the same assumption his relative makes about being a lawyer or going to college.
The possibility that those high salaries and pensions currently paid to law enforcement might not even exist in the future is a whole other topic of discussion.
The difficulty of giving career advice to people reminds me of something I read recently.
It was about a farmer that was debating whether or not to share what he had knew about farming with his neighbors (who could be thought of as potential rivals and future competitors), because everything he knew about growing those crops took a lot of years and a little hardship to learn. He finally decided that it didn't really matter if he told them all of his secrets and tips to growing a bumper crop because nobody ever listens to good advice anyway.
So, you might as well tell everybody the ugly truth because the vast majority are going to ignore your advice, but a few will actually listen and they are the ones that deserve your advice the most.
As a fellow lawyer, recently struck out on my own, I still have some optimistic hope for my future "career". I have no regrets about going to law school b/c I genuinely feel it was God's call for me (I started college in the seminary, anxious to be a priest, and left only when I could not longer deny the fact that priesthood wasn't God's vocation for me). But, that experience enabled me to go to college, as I never could have afforded it anyway, and it was actually a priest that suggested law school for me. I'm certainly not a traditional lawyer, and I'm definitely not rich and successful, but I'm genuinely happy doing what I do.
That having been said, I see your point entirely, and I know a lot of lawyers that never should have been lawyers and it hardly seems like the vocation God had in mind for them. College was even more shocking to me. When I went to college, I had no doubt that I would study as hard as possible and do my best. So many other students, especially those that had their education paid for, just pissed away their college because they assumed a good job was waiting for them. Many of them were so unintelligent that I couldn't believe they even managed to get through high school, much less college.
There are many people that go to college every year that have no business going to college. But, there are many more that are doing exactly what they should be.
One thing that has struck me, professionally and personally, is the fact that more people, whether college grads or not, should look at being self employed or in a small business. I don't make a lot of money being self employed, and it's hard work, but I'm so much happier doing that that I ever was in the stable, secure firm I started with.
When people ask me about career choices, I tell them to follow their heart. Consider and pray about what will really make them happy. Where do they want to live? Be patient and don't assume you must go to college.
Thanks for the great post.
"So, you might as well tell everybody the ugly truth because the vast majority are going to ignore your advice, but a few will actually listen and they are the ones that deserve your advice the most."
That is very true.
"(I started college in the seminary, anxious to be a priest, and left only when I could not longer deny the fact that priesthood wasn't God's vocation for me)"
I hope being a lawyer works out well for you. I've often seen lawyers who I thought would have been better off going into the clergy, but off hand I think you're the only one that I can think of who started off towards the clergy and came into the law. What we focus on is considerably different.
There are some interesting examples of men who went from the law to the clergy, and indeed I've known a couple who did that.
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