Wednesday, October 1, 2014

Commentary on Career Advice. Caveat Auctor.


Immediately below here, I have a post on Bad Advice, and perhaps this is in that category, so I'll go ahead and add it to this mid week entry.  This topic is commentary on career advice.  It isn't career advice, it's advice on the advice.

 Great Depression era career poster. During the depression there was a fair amount of attention given to student and adult career education.  This one actually promoted the field of drafting.

It would not be true to say that I get a lot of people asking me for career advice, and by and large I don't think most people do either.  I get a little of that, from time to time, as I'm sure most professionals do, and it tends to fall into two groups.  One set comes from people pondering a career, the second set comes from their parents or a parent.  FWIW, I tend to find that when people ask themselves, their more sincere in asking, and because I think most people don't ask anyone at all about potential careers, I tend to think they're truly very much searching. When parents ask I tend to find that they're seeking affirmation of an opinion they've already given, and they're not really that interested in a sincere opinion.

Perhaps somewhat related to that, I find that career commentary itself is much more common within a career, and those conversations constitute insider knowledge.  That commentary also falls into two groups, one being observational about the career itself, and the other being observations on new entrants into the career as a class.

A third set of commentary is that which people independently put out about any one field. I suppose this post fits into that category sort of, although its not propaganda, and this sort of gratis unsolicited advice is the most dangerous of all such advice.  It might be accurate, or it might reflect the strongly held view of the individual.  I'll touch on that in a moment, but people who independently give such advice tend to fit into one of three categories, those being; 1) somebody who is some species of recruiter, whether or not they're officially that, and therefore have a vested interest in promoting the career to anyone who will listen and who tend towards propoganda; 2) Unicorn riders who have a happy view about things to such a degree its absurd; and 3) people who are in black despair and have nothing really good to say about anything, but who have focused on their career as the epicenter of their discontent.  The fourth group here is the rarest, that being those people who truly are their brother's keepers and who seek to advise accordingly.

So why am I mentioning this?

Well, partly because as I get older I'm slipping into the fourth category just mentioned above.  Over time, a person either becomes numb to things, only know those things, or begins to worry about things, and I guess at age 51 I'm in the latter category.  Having teenage kids, I'm amazed by how to this day there is so little effort to actually help kids find a career that will work for them.  When I was in high school the amount of effort devoted to this by officialdom in the school district was a negative number, and it doesn't seem to have risen up to much above single digits right now.  That's flat out bad.  Yes, I suppose most people can and do find their own way, but a little help might be warranted.  When you see somebody headed off for a career of some sort based on a book they read, or a movie they saw, it's really hard not to start worrying.

But it occurs to me that the first thing a person should note on this topic that whenever a person starts to ask for, or even receive, career advice, there are certain massive caveats that apply to it.  So, that's what this post is about.  The topic, basically, is Caveat Auctor.

Or in other words, Listener Beware.

So, what should a person be so wary about?

1.  How well do you know the person who is giving you advice?

This is important in two context, one is people you solicit for advice. The other is the professional recruiter.  Let's start with people you solicit.

As noted above, I only very rarely get approached by anyone who is looking at career stuff, but on odd occasion I do.  Interestingly, I've been asked, at various times, whether the questioner should 1) become a lawyer (the most common question); or 2) enter the Army; or 3) pursue a career in agriculture.  My guess is most professionals get asked something about their own profession from time to time.

Okay, so what to note about this?

If the person you are asking is somebody you know professionally, or that your friends or relatives know professionally, you should take their advice with a grain of salt if their employment depends on those people.  In other words, you are unlikely to get the unvarnished truth from somebody you do not know really well, if that person is in business, and needs the business, and you are the business or are associated with the business.

Let's take an example.  You are thinking of becoming an accountant.  Your father's business, Amalgamated Duluth Widgets and Law Ornaments, Uses Al Gebra as an accountant.  He looks to have a neat career, and you muscle up the courage to ask him about it. Good for you.  However, if it is the case that Al has a secret drinking problem caused by his despair over his career, and his regret that he didn't become a Yak Herdsman in Mongolia, he's probably not going to tell you that if putting food on his table depends on ADWLO.

Now, it might be the case that Al actually loves his job.  I'm not saying he doesn't.  I'm just saying that a person should consider this.  If you don't know him personally, chances are that he may be careful about what he tells you, or tell you nothing really at all.  Of course, he might tell you nothing really at all, even if he loves his job, as he knows that just because he loves it, doesn't mean that you will.  Indeed, that's the scary thing.  If you love doing something, but know somebody else might not, maybe its' just better to say nothing at all?

I think this danger is less, however, for people whose jobs don't depend on customers, of which there are a lot.  I can't think of all the examples, but let's say you are thinking about becoming a fireman and so you ask a fireman you don't know super well.  He's not going to get fired if he tells you the disadvantages of the career (I think), so I think this danger would be less..  However, I will say that generally people tend not to say negative things about their work unless they know a person really well.

Here, however, there's also a danger.

Any time you ask this question, you must be aware that a person's view is always unique to them.  And that makes a huge difference.

I've known one or two people whose personalities were so rosy, I truly think they'd be happy doing anything. That is truly a blessing, but it also means that their advice would be suspect.  If you were to ask them if they liked their jobs killing surplus kittens at the pound, they probably would, as they're just incapable of being unhappy.  Conversely, there are certain people whose view is so dark, they couldn't be happy about anything.  Those people would look down a job that paid a vast amount doing whatever you can think of, as they just view the world that way. So their view is also suspect.  If you don't know a person fairly well, either of those situations could apply, although I frankly think it's easier to tell a chronically unhappy person from a chronically blissful person.  Or maybe it isn't, as I suspect most really unhappy people probably don't announce that.

2.  What is their experience?

I think people asking about careers often forget that most people's experience in their profession is pretty limited.  As a trial lawyer, for example, it's probable that I know a lot more about other occupations than I do about the jobs some other types of lawyers do, as one of the pluses (or at least I feel its a plus) of my line of work is that I get to learn about the jobs of a lot of other people.

About our own lines of work, however, we usually know what we do.  So when a person asks "what's it like to be a . . . ?" you have to keep that in mind.  Asking a person what its like to be a "lawyer" will probably result in a different answer for a trial lawyer, than a divorce lawyer, or prosecutor.  And most of us don't have a really good idea what members of our profession do, if they don't do what we do.  A policeman in Chicago knows what its like to be a policeman in  Chicago, I suspect, and probably not what its like to be a sheriff's deputy in Raton New Mexico.  A game warden in Massachusetts is probably occupying a different job from a game warden in Wyoming, and for that matter, a game warden might not really be too familiar with what an officer from the U.S. Fish & Wildlife does.  A surgeon probably has a different life than an ophthalmologist, I'd guess.  A heavy engine mechanic doesn't do the same thing as a small engine mechanic.  The point is, you have to keep this in mind, and you probably have to keep asking too, to get a complete picture.

As part of this, I think it matters to be aware of what stage a person is in their career, and how careers change.  For example, looking at the law again, a person usually graduates with a JD in their 20s, but you don't spend much of your 20s practicing law.  Quite a few lawyers practice pretty actively well into their 60s.  But the overall experiences of a lawyer in their 60s might not reflect the conditions of a lawyer who is their 30s, and may very well not reflect the conditions that will dominate in that younger lawyers career.  I guess this is a way of saying that at some point our advice on careers tends towards the out of date, whether we know it or not.

There are certain professions (non legal) that I've really heard people express this view about.  People now in them, in their 40s, note that the careers have changed so much, they neither recognize them or like them anymore.  I doubt that they could have done anything about that, but the lesson here is that if you are entering a profession its good to know what people with some experience, but maybe not decades of it, think about it.  Keep in mind that overall, by the end of things, most people spend the same amount of time in their 30s, 40s and 50s than they do in their 60s and 70s.  So if you have a person finishing out a career saying its great, it'd be nice to know that they also thought that in their 30s and 40s.  And not too many people finish an entire career and want to admit that they wished they hadn't.  Of course, most people probably don't finish out an entire career they didn't like.  Or at least I hope not.

Maybe another thing to consider is when people retire and why.  That almost never matters to people in their 20s, but it starts to by the time you are in your 40s.  By your 50s, you'll notice your friends who were in some government jobs retiring, and its hard not be be envious about that.  In some other professions, people never seem to retire, and it might be worth knowing why that is.  Either they really love what they do, became what they do, or they can't afford to retire.

Finally, career impetus varies by generation, something that I've  heard made as a career observation in different careers more than once, but which really matters for a person's view.  People who grew up in the Great Depression (now mostly retired) tended to have very strong views about the simple value of work over everything else, and I've actually noted the same thing with people who came of age here in the 1970s and 1980s.  Work became so tight, that the simple concept of actually having a job dominated over everything else, and to many of those people, that's still true.  So, they'll heavily value an occupation in which there has been steady work and are often amazed by younger generations that do not.  By the same extension, people who came of age in the Great Depression often have very distinct ideas about the concept of dignity in professions, conceiving of it as its own reward, but are also very accepting of class distinctions. They also will sometimes value distinctions over income, and because they started working in booming economies after World War Two, they also tend to think that a person will become a financial success because they will. The Boomer Generation that came of age in the 1960s and often started careers in the 1970s, however, is ironically (given their Hippie reputation) often highly money oriented and have had the impact of converting careers, in some instances, into very money centric businesses.

In contrast to this, the generations that started entering the work force in the mid 1990s and every sense tends to value work place stability and career longevity not at all, and it also sometimes seems comfortable with money being pretty fluid.  One thing that lawyers my age and older tend to note is that new lawyers quit jobs and even the entire practice of law fairly frequently, fairly often, and fairly early.  This has lead to the claim that that generation is lazy, but it isn't.  It just is looking for something else.  For those sorts of people, freedom in fluidity must be pretty important, and if they're talking to an older generation, they might want to consider that that wasn't important, or not even admired, in earlier eras.

Motivational poster from the 1920s, urging employees not to change jobs. This poster expresses a value that tends to be contrary to the one held by people who have entered the work force post 1995 or so.

3.  What's their motive for giving you advice?

If you just asked them for advice, their honor and interest in their motivation.

 British Army recruiting poster from  World War One. This poster is absolutely true, for its era.  Being a farrier was a career, albeit one that was about to see a big reduction in numbers due to mechanization.  But the Army wasn't taking these guys in as a job program, it was fighting the Germans.

But for people who are basically recruiters, and I'd include anyone associated with a school with that, they have an additional motivation, which is to get paying customers in classroom seats.

That doesn't mean that everyone who is in that role is dishonest.  I've heard of university professors in some cases dissuading people from majoring in a particular field, and I've actually heard some professors do just that.  But when you hear really rosy predictions about a field from a department were employment opportunities are lacking, buyer beware.  I myself once had the experience of being in the hospital with pneumonia at Ft. Sill Oklahoma in which I was in a ward in which everyone else was a missile crewman who had enlisted in the Army under the belief that they were going to get to study computers.  Yes, missiles in 1981 did have computers, but. . . .

Note, none of this advice tells you to major or not major in any one field, or to go into one career or another.  I frankly won't do that.  When people do ask me this question, I generally try to tell them what I do or what I know, but I don't encourage them or discourage them from doing anything.  I don't really want the responsibility for one thing.  I guess I give advice the same way that I used to read the movie reviews in The New Republic, i.e., for informational purposes, and to make up my own mind.  What I am saying, however, is that when such advice is given, consider the advice, and consider the person giving it and what you know about them.  I also feel, FWIW, that a person should really try to get advice from somebody who will give them a full opinion, and that getting real experience in a field is the best teacher.

Mid Week At Work: Bad Advice


One of those dread motivational posters of the past.

Some of these posters, while all a little cheesy, have good advice.  This one doesn't, however.  It's universally agreed by industrial psychologist that employers and employers are better off taking their time off.  Paradoxically, Americans are terrible at actually taking their time off, and most Americans do not take off all of the time they're entitled to during a year.

I'm one of the worst offenders.  In a typical year, I don't take a real vacation and I probably work at least half the Saturdays in a year.

On this poster, it's important to keep in mind that Saturday as a day off was a recent achievement for labor, so it wasn't fully accepted at the time.

Tuesday, September 30, 2014

Lex Anteinternet: The Poster Gallery: Posters from World War Two.

Lex Anteinternet: The Poster Gallery: Posters from World War Two.: More posters that have been featured on this site, this set from the Second World War. ...

Lex Anteinternet: The Poster Gallery: Posters of World War One.

Lex Anteinternet: The Poster Gallery: Posters of World War One.: Our site has many threads featuring posters of various eras, including World War One.  World War One posters that have appeared here are rep...

The oldest marked grave on the trails

The oldest marked grave on the trails

Scots said “no,” but wow, did they care

Scots said “no,” but wow, did they care

Food: Seasonal, local, and from the grocery store. A revolution we don't often recognize.


World War One Canadian poster urging Canadians to preserve food for the winter.

Recently we blogged here about hunting, fishing and diet.  In response to that thread, Rich posted this comment:
I've always thought that there should also be something about seasonality to how a person eats.

There's something about that first asparagus in early spring, digging new potatoes out of the garden, peaches in summer, or venison in the fall that makes you appreciate it more than just going to the store and buying whatever you want whenever you want.

Eating a fresh-picked peach (if you can find one) in December doesn't seem quite the same as eating yourself sick on home-grown peaches in July.
As I noted in my reply, there's actually a movement that espouses that view, that being the "Eat Local", or "localvore" movement.  Sort of in the spirit of old norm returns as a trend amongst the well educated and well read, this movement, inspired in part by people like Michale Pollan and in part by people like Joel Salatin, the concept is that a person ought to try to obtain their food from a reasonable distance around them.  That isn't really what Rich espoused, but its sort of a related concept, as it would incorporate seasonality by default.

Of course, depending upon where you lived, it'd cause you to eat a very spartan diet as well.  I've blogged about that somewhere here before, but because the search feature of this blog doesn't always seem to work really well on the older threads, I haven't found it. Still, this is one of those areas that taps into the theme of the blog, and for which there are all sorts of interesting permutations.

 
Dick Latham, unintentional localvore, with an antelope in Wyoming.  This photo first appeared on our May 2, 2009 entry.

A year or two ago I was defending a deposition in Sheridan Wyoming and the law office I was in had a giant poster of the view in town from the courthouse.   One of the things that was visible was a sign on a building advertising a grocery that bought and sold local vegetables. That's fairly amazing for a variety of reasons, the most significant of which is that in the early 20th Century there were enough vegetables being grown in the Sheridan area to market them commercially through a local grocer, something that certainly isn't the case now there, or anywhere in Wyoming.  Farming still goes on in the area, but not commercial vegetable farming.  All the farming is commercial hay farming or wheat, in that area.  Indeed, while there may be exceptions somewhere in the state, all the commercial farming I'm aware of in Wyoming is a hay crop, wheat, or corn.

 

Indeed, at least as late as the 1940s, it was still the case that there was enough of a local demand that my family's packing house, which had some farm ground next to it which it generally used for hay production, put in a crop of potatoes for local sale.  That may have occurred elsewhere in the state after that, but if it did, I don't know of it. That might have been the last commercial potato crop in the state.  I can't think of a single conventional food crop being raised anywhere in the state at this time for sale in grocery stores.  A farm near Alcova Wyoming raises a crop of sweet corn for direct sale to customers, who harvest it themselves, but that's a bit different.  Near Riverton Wyoming there are some farms that likewise grow raspberries and pumpkins for sale in that fashion.  About the closest we get to the commercial sale of locally grown crops, in town, at an established market, is the vending of Colorado peaches and chili peppers that will happen on a seasonal basis, with those vendors setting up in parking lots to make their sales.  That's not really quite the same thing, however.

What's replaced this is the huge food distribution system we now have throughout the Western world. We don't even think of this, but frankly, it's an amazing thing in and of itself, and an amazing thing to ponder, if perhaps a little scary in some ways.

 World War One vintage poster urging conservation of wheat.

Go into any town or city in the state, like any town or city in any state, and you are going to see some grocery store chain.  This city has Safeways, Albertsons, Smiths, and Natural Grocers.  At one time it had an IGA as well, but that was before the Smiths.  These are present in many towns.  Guernsey has a Jack & Jills.  I'm sure there are others I've missed, maybe even here in town.  We do have a couple of surviving small grocery stores, however, those being Grant Street Grocers and Braddis' (which is now a meat market).  And this is before even taking into account that the "big box" stores, like Wal Mart and Sam's Club also have grocery sections.  That doesn't explain this change in and of itself, of course. Safeway, for example, has been around since the 1930s and was one of the first really widespread chain stores in the United States.  But it's emblematic of the consolidation and systematization of the food supply system.

What's really changed it, however, is how process and most particularly transportation has been employed both to process food and deliver it everywhere.  The change is so vast, we can hardly grasp it.


Let's go back, for a moment to the earlier condition. And in doing that, let's go back one century.  If we were here in Wyoming on an unusually warm September day in 1914, rather than 2014, what would we be seeing on our tables.

Well, just running through the day, there's still be coffee (thank goodness) on the breakfast table. Coffee was one of the earliest widely distributed mass produced crop items in the world.  Arbuckle's was particularly popular in  the American West, and it dates back as a company to 1864.  But unless I was extremely eccentric, I would note, preparing the coffee would be  bit different.  I use a coffee maker now, like most coffee drinkers I suppose, and struggle to get enough coffee against the intake of my coffee drinking son.  My father, however, always drank instant coffee for some reason.  I can't really stand instant coffee now, but I did drink it at one time, and will sometimes if camping, just because it's easy.  Instant coffee came in just before the First World War, and by accounts the process to make it is similar to the current one.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7g2Su-sl7dE/VA8ZxZPPw_I/AAAAAAAAR3g/yweIUlksGKA/s1600/Washington_Coffee_New_York_Tribune.JPG 
 Washington's Prepared (instant) Coffee.  It was apparently pretty bad, but popular with soldiers as it was easy to make.

Okay, so much for what I'd drink, but what if you drank milk? Well, there too, it'd be available, but probably from a local dairy.  And indeed at one time my family owned the local "creamery", that being the the institution that processes and delivers the milk.

 

Former  Jersey Creamery building in Casper Wyoming.  Once an institution of nearly any decent sized town, these are now largely a thing of the past.

Most places, local creameries are a thing of the past, replaced by regional ones.  Oddly, at least one regional one that supplies this region notes that the milk goes basically straight from the farmer's cows to you, but those farmers aren't around here.  There are no longer any dairy herds here at all.  The old dairy isn't far from where I live, but it boards horses now and has for decades.

 
But still, so far no big difference. So what else? Well, I frankly usually have cereal for breakfast, and I have for most of my life.  My wife, on the other hand, during the school year cooks breakfast for the kids, a marker of her ranch background. So for the kids, breakfast most days hasn't changed much.  For cereal eaters, however, the story is different.

Some processed cereals were around in 1914, but not all that many.  The selection isn't what it is today.  Post is really the oldest cereal brand, and its been around since 1895, which makes it pretty darned old.  So you could eat cereal.  You could also eat oatmeal of course, or "porridge" as my mother called it.  You wouldn't be eating instant oatmeal, however.  There was no such thing.  You had to cook it.

 Corn Flakes advertisement from 1910.

On occasion, I'll cook oatmeal, and it does taste better, in my opinion, than the instant. It also takes more time.  It seems like it takes forever in fact, even though it really doesn't.  On odd occasions, when I've had Irish oatmeal here at the house, I've even cooked it the night before so as to save time the following morning.  But still, so far we're not seeing huge variety differences in our house.

You would, however, if you are one of those people who eats yogurt or drinks something exotic, like orange juice, at breakfast. Flat out not available in most places in the US in 1914.

Indeed, something like orange juice would have been exclusively home made, and rarely available.  Now, oranges are literally shipped in by ship year around, if not in season in the US.  Nobody shipped oranges in 1914 to the US.  It would have been a  seasonal crop, as would any single fruit crop.  Most of the year, no fruit.  This time of the year there would have been some, particularly apples in this region, perhaps from a tree out back.  Oranges, I'd note, were once sufficiently uncommon by mid winter that they were a common Christmas gift for children.

Perhaps we should leave the breakfast table and move on to other meals, although that proves in the case of midday to be a little more difficult.  Now at midday most people eat "lunch", although I often as not just skip it.  People in early eras didn't skip it, and they typically ate what we'd consider an enormous lunch.  For these reasons, it's practically beyond comparison. Depending upon what they did, they either ate a large home prepared meal they packed with them or went to a cafe, or ate at the house.  In any event, their lunches were more like our "dinners" or "supper", IE., the last (big) meal of the day.

Nothing in these meals was of the prepackaged type we see today.  No Lunchables or packaged cellophane wrapped sandwiches.  Nothing microwavable.  Unless you go out for lunch and stick to a pretty basic diet at that lunch, such as a beef sandwich or something, your lunch is different.

So is your evening meal, and in spades.

A lot of evenings we no doubt eat a meal that resembles one of a century ago, probably more than most families, particularly for this region. We have antelope, deer and a volunteer beef in the freezer.  While freezers were non existent a century ago, these meat sources would have all been fairly common here a century ago.  For quite a few folks around here, something they shot would appear on the dinner table from time to time, and beef was available.  Pork probably was, in small amounts, too.  Chicken, from local sources only, would have been too.

So what's different?  Well, we're talking 100% local.  Local beef, and local poultry, supplemented by local wild game.  Now, that's not common for most Americans.  

And normally it would have been fairly fresh too.  As in very fresh. Without very good refrigeration, you couldn't have kept meat for even more than a couple of days, unless it was of the salted or cured variety.

Which was around, to be sure. Corned beef and bacon are two good examples.  Corned beef and bacon will keep awhile, particularly as the corned beef of that day isn't the same thing, really, that people eat now.  Heavily salty, like hams of the days, it had to be boiled to drive the salt off in order to eat it.  Corned beef was a staple of European armies in this era for a reason, and it wasn't because its was tasty (which modern corned beef is).  And there were canned and "potted" meats by this time, for those who couldn't acquire fresh meat. But they were not popular daily items for most people, which is the same as today really.

Anything else on that dinner table likewise would probably have been fairly fresh, depending upon the time of the year, and highly local.  However, canning and preserving also existed, so canned vegetables and preserved vegetables were available other times of the year. Some sort of vegetables really keep, such as potatoes and onions, and these would have made a long presence into the looming winter.

 World War One vintage photograph, part of food preservation campaign.

What all that probably makes plain is that the diet was much less varied. That doesn't make it bad, I'll note, just less varied.  No Kiwis, hummus, yogurt, or any of the numerous other things people now routinely eat.  No canned refried beans.  No peppers in December.  No lettuce in January.  No grapes in March.  And so on.

Well, so much for a century ago. If we take it back one century further, to 1814, and therefore take out anything not being mass produced and packaged or canned, we're left with basically one item that was preserved and distributed, that being corn in the form of whiskey.  There was food that could be preserved, of course, by corning, smoking, or drying, including both meats and vegetables of various type.  The meat products are fairly obvious to us upon considering it, but probably the vegetable products, like dried beans, less so.

So to what can we attribute this huge change. Well, factory processing is surely one, and that's spread from its beginnings in the late 19th Century to the present point where even whole meals are prepared hundreds or thousands of miles from where they will be eaten, and shipped.  And that's caused an element of centralization in the system that didn't previously exist.

 Cutting fish for canning as sardines.

If we stop and think about this for a moment, the nature of it is really amazing. We receive vegetables from hundreds of miles, even thousands of miles away.  Lettuce is harvested in California, or northern Mexico, and transported to grocery stores all over North America. That required a pretty amazing transportation system, which the case of the United States is entirely dependent upon highway using trucks.  Or consider oranges, which we can now get year around.  Oranges are harvested in Texas, or Florida, or Belize and taken by, perhaps, ships to one spot, and then trucked to far distant points, and yet they are still affordable.

That they are still affordable is in and of itself amazing.  Each bears a fractional share of the transportation costs, and yet that turns out to be quite small in the end.  Of course, some of the costs are borne indirectly, such as the costs of maintaining and building the highways, but still it comes out pretty cheaply.  Its so efficient in fact that even if the environmental costs are added in, according to Freakanomics, it still comes out ahead of at least some alternative options.


This is a revolution that's hard for us to appreciate today, but its truly an amazing one.  I'm not saying, of course, that a person shouldn't till their own soil, and I've maintained substantial gardens of my own in the past, and my father always did.  Growing your own was its own reward, and the taste of freshly grown is indeed better from that grown long distances away.  And there's something to be said for maintaining local agriculture, the loss of which is disturbing on multiple levels.  Rather, what we note here is the change itself, which has been enormous.

Monday, September 29, 2014

Uncle Couvi s Rules For Visiting A Museum To Perform Research - SMH

Uncle Couvi s Rules For Visiting A Museum To Perform Research - SMH

Business Machines of Antiquity.


This is a lobby display in the office of DepMax in Salt Lake.  It's nicely done, really, and the amazing thing about it in contemplation is that the devices displayed were undoubtedly so routine as to not be regarded as worthy of display in their day.

The machine of the left is, of course, a type righter.  A manual Royal typewriter, to be precise.  Not particularly notable, but in fact revolutionary, in its day.  It wiped out the occupation of scriviner and it was instrumental in converting that male occupation into what ultimately became largely the female occupation of secretary, which didn't really do quite the same things, but where the latter basically absorbed the former to such an extent that the world "scrivner", when used in the law, no longer really means quite the same thing it originally had.  The typewriter also revolutionized all sorts of other writing professions, and there were portable versions, not much larger than the one seen here, for people who had to write on the road or in the field.  Now this is all largely a thing of the past, although a few diehards still will use manual typewriters.  Supposedly conservative columnist George F. Will does.

On the far right is a court reporters stenograph machine. These still exist, but certainly not in this form.  This form used a large roll of paper to type print out the court reporter's shorthand in a continuing roll, with the court reporter having to stop from time to time to change the roll.  This version of the machine is a manual one, like the typewriter, and it slowly supplanted handwritten shorthand, which a few court reporters were still using as late as the 1950s.  When I started practicing law in 1990 this manual type had been replaced by an electric version, much like electric typewriters had largely supplanted manual ones, but otherwise they were more or less the same.

About fifteen years ago or so, court reporter's stenographic machines started showing up with computer jacks, and laptops.  We could, all of a sudden, take a look at the raw transcript in "real time", as the computer translated the shorthand. This wasn't entirely trusted at first, but slowly it came to be, and now the overwhelming majority of court reporters use computers jacked into their machines and dispense with the paper roll entirely.  I've had one occasion on which a computer failure required the reporter to call in a second one, which was justified as when the reporter feels that things aren't working, they aren't.  Still, this photo shows the interesting way in which things have stayed the same, and very much changed.

I don't know what the wooden roll top thing in the middle of this display is.  Probably something having a connection with office work, but I have no idea what it is.

Monday at the Bar: Lawyers Office, Dover Deleware, 1940s.


The Big Picture: Cambrai, 1919


Sunday, September 28, 2014

They had been farmers. . . people who farmed/ranched and became known in other endeavors.

This is another one of those trailing threads.  This time listing people who started out in agriculture or who dabbled in it.

On this one, I may put a time period limit. Say nobody prior to 1890, unless truly exceptional in some fashion.  Prior to that date, agriculture was so common, it'd be too easy to simply list absolutely everyone.

Also, while most of the people on this list are quite admirable, saying something positive about farming in general, a few will be baddies. That's just the way such lists work.

Author's Note:  Know somebody who could be listed here?  Add their name in the comments.

_________________________________________________________________________________


John Adams


Okay, I know I said that I wasn't going to go back past the 20th Century, but so many people forget that John Adams was a farmer that I feel compelled to add him here.  As I noted on the thread on lawyers, Adams was a 18th Century polymath who played many parts in life, including that of lawyer.  Adams came from a well to do Massachusetts farming family and studied law early in his life. That lead him to a career as a lawyer, and farmer, both of which he loved. He added to his families' farm holdings during his lifetime, and he purchased a horse to break for riding when he was in his 80s, showing how vigorous he remained late in life, an attribute perhaps attributable to his lifelong combining of intellectual and physical careers.

Category:  Diplomat.  Civil Servant.  Politician.  Farmer.

Date Added:  November 28, 2013.

_________________________________________________________________________________ 

Wendell Berry

The eclectic polymath Berry is well known in certain agricultural circles.   In addition to farming in his native Kentucky, he is a professor of English at the University of Kentucky.  He has also written a series of books on agrarian philosophy which are widely admired by agrarians.  His writings include novels and poetry and social criticism as well.

Other Occupations:  Educator. Writer.  Philosopher.  Social Critic.

Date Added:  November 22, 2013.

_________________________________________________________________________________

The Boers


The Boers are the Dutch Europeans in southern Africa.  The word "Boer" means farmer in their Dutch dialect and the has come into English principally through the first and second Boer Wars.  The name is similar to the German word Bauer which is familiar to English speakers as a German extraction last name.

Boers are called that as, up through the Second Boer War, nearly all of them were farmers.  This contributed to the nature of the Boer War, as Boers served without uniform, were required to acquire their own service rifles, and were 100% mounted, and mounted on their own horses.

Category:  National identity

Date Added:  November 21, 2013.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Anthony Wilford Brimley

Actor Wilford Brimley has occupied a large number of occupations during his lifetime, including Marine, bodyguard, and blacksmith.  The Salt Lake City native was raised in the city, but started working as a cowboy when young and has farmed for years in Big Horn County Wyoming. Brimley has noted in interviews that he always felt that he should have another occupation other than acting, as you never knew when the acting roles would quit coming.  He entered the movies as a stuntman due to his riding abilities.

Category:  Actor, Marine, Blacksmith, Bodyguard

Date added: September 29, 2014.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Dave Brubeck

Dave Brubeck, the legendary jazz musician, was the son of a northern California cattle rancher and grew up as a ranch kid.  He originally intended to study veterinary medicine at the College of the Pacific and return to his parents ranch, and work alongside his father, but his zoology professor urged him to switch to music, where he felt this heart really was.  Brubeck's most famous piece is the legendary "Take Five."

Other Occupation:  Musician.

Date Added:  November 7, 2013.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Whitaker Chambers

 Whitaker Chambers about the time of his testimony exposing the Ware Group, a Communist Cell.

Chambers is famously remembered today for being the individual who revealed the existence of the Ware Communist Cell in Washington D. C., and its most famous member, Alger Hiss. To the extent he's remembered as a farmer, its in that he had hidden some microfilm in a pumpkin, which gives rise to the famous pumpkin papers moniker.

In actuality, Chambers who wasn't born a farmer, seemingly had a natural affinity to it and took to it while in his 20s. Prior to purchasing farm ground while working as an editor for Time magazine, he'd lived on farms while a Communist operative and then a fugitive from the Communist.  He came to have a deeply agrarian view of agriculture and expressed a view of it far beyond that of merely having a liking for it, but a nearly spiritual affinity for it.  His family grew both crops and livestock, and was deeply involved in rural activities.

Other Occupations:  Translator, Writer, Communist Operative, Revolutionary, Spy, Anti-Communist Activist, Editor.

Date Added:  November 21, 2013.

________________________________________________________________________________

Cinncinnatus

The model citizen of the Roman Republic was a farmer, in addition to being a citizen soldier and a politician.  He's listed here due to his exceptional place in early Roman history.


Other Occupation:  Soldier.  Politician.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Gaius Aurelius Valerius Diocletianus

Diocletian was an effective Roman Emperor who was also one of the worst persecutors of Christians in Roman history.  He actually left the office of Emperor on his own, twice, to retire to farming cabbages.  He's listed here due to his notable role as an effective Roman Emperor, a baddie in persecution, and the fact that he actually stepped down as emperor.

Other Occupation:  Politician.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Paul D. Etienne

Paul D. Etienne is the Catholic Bishop of Cheyenne.  He's also a farmer, sharing a farm with his brother, who is also a Catholic Priest.  The farm is in Indiana, so necessarily with his current duties he farms part time.


Other Occupation:  Cleric
_________________________________________________________________________________

Catherine Fox

Catherine (Kate) Fox is a justice of the Wyoming Supreme Court.  She grew up on the dude ranch of her immigrant parents and worked on it as an adult, for a time, prior to going to law school.

Other Occupation:  Lawyer

Date Added:  November 22, 2013.

_________________________________________________________________________________

James Geringer

Jim Geringer was a former Governor of Wyoming.  The Air Force officer veteran came from a wheat farm outside of Wheatland Wyoming, which he farmed prior to his being Governor.


Other Occupation:  Politician, Air Force Officer

__________________________________________________________________________________

Richard Davis Hanson

Hanson is an amazing polymath, being a political and social commentator, a historian, a professor and a farmer.  He farms in California on a farm handed down from his family.


Other Occupations:  Educator, Writer, Critic, Historian

_________________________________________________________________________________

Eddie James "Son" House, Jr.

Son House is a legendary Delta Bluesman who had a regional Southern career in the 1930s which he abandoned for better paying work in the railroad in New York and a second national career that bloomed in the 1960s blues revival.  Early in his life, before being a bluesman, he'd also managed a horse farm in Louisiana and had worked on the farm of his father in law prior to leaving his first wife.

Other Occuaptions:  Railroad porter.  Musician.

Date Added:  November 22, 2013.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Heinrich Himmler

The creepy head of the SS in Nazi Germany was briefly a chicken farmer.  Briefly is the key word here, as he really had trained to be an officer in the Imperial German Army but found himself out of work following the German defeat in World War One.

Other Occupations:  Too icky to categorize.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Andrew Jackson

Andrew Jackson's name was just entered on the They Were Lawyers thread.  Most people are probably aware that Jackson had a connection with the law, if they know his history, but perhaps fewer are aware that at the same time he was a lawyer, he was a planter.  Planters were a class of farmer, including George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, who engaged in large scale, and frankly slave based, farming in the American south.

Other Occupations:  Soldier, Lawyer

Date Added:  January 25, 2014

_________________________________________________________________________________

Kulaks

Kulaks were farmers, mostly in southern Russia, who owned their own land rather than working as tenant farmers collectively.  They were violently oppressed following the rise of the Communist during the Russian Revolution and Civil War who propagandized them as being rich opponents of the masses which was far from the truth.  Communism was an urban movement to start with, and its grasp of agricultural affairs was poor at best.

Other Occupations:  Economic class

Date Added:  November 22, 2013.

_________________________________________________________________________________

 Gene Logsdon

Logsdon occupies a space that is analogous to Wendell Berry's, except that he tends to restrict his writing to agricultural topics and he doesn't eschew the internet. Otherwise, in addition to being a farmer, he's an agrarian advocate and writer.

Other Occupations:  Writer.  Social Critic

Date Added:  November 22, 2013.

________________________________________________________________________________

Cynthia Lummis

Cynthia Lummis is the Congresswoman from Wyoming. Even though I'm also from Wyoming, I frankly do not know a great deal about her.  However, she apparently grew up on a family ranch outside of Cheyenne, which was one of a variety of businesses owned by her family in that area.

Other Occupations:  Lawyer.  Politician.

Date Added:  November 7, 2013.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Matt Mead

Matt Mead is the current Governor of Wyoming and comes from a ranching family.  In addition to being the Governor, he's also a rancher.

Other Occupation:   Lawyer, Politician.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Metis

The word "metis" has its roots in a French word for "mixed" which reflects the mixed cultural and racial background of this Canadian culture. Descendants of  Indians and French Canadians, and speaking French, they lived in Western Canada without an established color of title but also retained some nomadic hunting practices.  The struggle over the title of their land lead to the Northwest Rebellion, which they lost.

Other Occupation:  Culture.

Date Added:  November 22, 2013.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Saint Patrick

Before he was a priest and missionary to Ireland, St. Patrick was a slave from Wales held in Ireland.  In that role, he was detailed to herding sheep, and therefore occupied the role of herdsman.

Category:  Cleric.  

Date added:  September 29, 2014

__________________________________________________________________________________

Theodore Roosevelt

Roosevelt ranches, as is widely known, in the 1880s in North Dakota, so I'm violating my own rule here. Roosevelt was wealthy, as is widely known, but not as rich as generally imagined, and was truly a rancher, as opposed to either being an absentee landlord or corporate head of an agricultural enterprise.  After the death of his mother and first wife, there was a time when it appeared that he might abandon the East and politics for a permanent vocation as rancher, which of course did not come to pass.

Perhaps bringing this back into the applicable time period, it was also the case that part of his large estate in Oyster Bay, New York was farmed, and there were considerations given to expanding the farming there at one point in time when he was out of politics, as a means of generating money from the estate.

Other Occupations:  Writer, politician, soldier

___________________________________________________________________________________

Zachery Taylor

Taylor is an exception to the "nothing prior to 1890" rule, but he is truly an exception.  He was a full time professional soldier but oddly enough, always farmed at the same time, no matter where he was stationed.  Indeed, by appearance he often looked a lot more like a 19th Century farmer than a soldier.

Other Occupations:  Soldier 

__________________________________________________________________________________

Taj Mahal (Henry Saint Clair Fredericks)

Bluesman Taj Mahal is famous for his ability to play so many differing variants of the blues.

An association with agriculture would not be unusual for a bluesman of a certain era and region, but that doesn't fit here.  Taj Mahal, born  Henry Saint Clair Fredericks, was born in Harlem New York to a West Indian jazz musician father and a mother who was a local gospel musician.  Steeped in music since a child, his career likely seems natural, but starting in his early teens he became deeply attracted to agriculture and remains so.  He worked at farms starting in his mid teens, and was a foreman for a dairy farm following his graduation from high school.  He still grows much of his own food.

Other Occupation:  Musician

Date Added:  November 22, 2013.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Jon Testor

Jon Testor is the U.S. Senator from Montana.  He's also a wheat farmer.


Other Occupation:  Politician

__________________________________________________________________________________

Harry S. Truman


Harry S. Truman grew up on a succession of farms owned by his parents.  His father was a farmer and a cattle trader.  After graduating from high school in 1901 he worked a series of hard blue collar jobs until 1906, when he returned the farm.  Little recalled now, he worked as a farmer on his parent's farm up until he World War One, when he entered the Army through the Missouri National Guard as an officer.

During this period, he met Bess, his future wife, and proposed to her.  According to Truman, she declined as as farmer didn't make a sufficient income in her view. That motivated him to not return to farming following World War One.

Truman is an unusual character in a lot of ways.  He's the last U.S. President to never have attended college or university and he's the last U.S. President to have grown up on a farm.  Of FDR's three Vice Presidents, he's one of two who had strong agricultural roots, and one of two who had not graduated from university, but the individuals he shares that distinction with are note the same ones.

Other Occupations:  Politician, Small Businessman, Soldier

Date Added:  November 21, 2013

________________________________________________________________________________


Alvin C. York 


Alvin C. York was at one time a household name in the US, and he remains the most remembered US enlisted man from World War One. The Tennessee pacifist gained fame for his heroic capture of 132 Germans, killing an additional 28, while silencing 32 machineguns, during a single day in 1918.  His Medal of Honor citation reads:
After his platoon suffered heavy casualties and 3 other noncommissioned officers had become casualties, Cpl. York assumed command. Fearlessly leading 7 men, he charged with great daring a machine gun nest which was pouring deadly and incessant fire upon his platoon. In this heroic feat the machine gun nest was taken, together with 4 officers and 128 men and several guns.
York was a farmer by occupation although he worked a variety of other jobs as well, in order to get by.

Other Occupations:  Soldier, Educator.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Henry A. Wallace



Wallace is recalled today as he was the hard left 1940-44 Vice President of Franklin Roosevelt who ultimately proved to be too hard left even for the FDR Administration, which had a very high tolerance towards the political left.  Indeed, after revelations about Communist penetration into various Executive agencies started coming to light after World War Two, Wallace was suspected by some of being a Communist, which he is still sometimes accused of being even by surprising sources.  The New Republic, for example, which he edited for a time in the late 1940s basically acknowledged that he was in one of their anniversary issues, indicating a degree of shame for having once employed him.  Nonetheless, the real evidence is that he was a very hard left Democrat/Progressive, and neither a Socialist or a Communist.

Wallace rose to prominence through agriculture, a fact that's typically forgotten, having started off working on a family farm and working on a family farming journal.  His family was prominent in agriculture, with his father having been a Secretary of Agriculture in the early 1920s.  Henry Wallace became Secretary of Agriculture in the first Roosevelt Administration and he became Vice President in the 1940 Administration.  He was dropped in favor of Truman in the next administration, saving the US from what would have been a disastrous late World War Two presidency.  He was not popular in the 1940 administration, where his hard left views were well known.

Following his period as Vice President, he was the Secretary of Commerce, and then he worked as a journalist, editing the New Republic.  He ran for President on the Progressive Party ticket, an effort to restart the Bull Moose party but updated, and brought much further left, than the original party. By that time, his political ship had sailed and he was not a success.  He himself heavily modified his views of the Soviet Union following North Korea's invasion of South Korea.  Late in life, however, he returned to his first love, farming, and even developed a very highly successful new breed of egg laying chickens.

Other Occupation:  Civil Servant, Politician, Journalist.

Date Added:  November 21, 2013.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Francis E. Warren

 

Francis E. Warren was the last Territorial Governor of Wyoming and the first State Governor, albeit only briefly.  His mostly remembered, however, for being a very long serving U.S. Senator.  He was also John J. Pershing's father in law.

The Massachusetts born Warren had grown up on a farm in Massachusetts and had farmed in that state before serving in the Civil War, where he won the Congressional Medal of Honor.  After coming out to Wyoming he was not only successful in politics, but founded Warren Land & Livestock, a ranching company that still exists.

Other Occupation:  Politician.

Date Added:  November 21, 2013.

________________________________________________________________________________
Samuel Woodfill.



Unlike York Woodfill is barely remembered today, but there was a time when his fame was as great as Sgt. York's.  Woodfill was a career soldier in the U.S. Army with sixteen years of service as an enlisted man at the time that the US entered World War One.  He won the Congressional Medal of Honor for this noted series of feats:
While he was leading his company against the enemy, his line came under heavy machinegun fire, which threatened to hold up the advance. Followed by 2 soldiers at 25 yards (23 m), this officer went out ahead of his first line toward a machinegun nest and worked his way around its flank, leaving the 2 soldiers in front. When he got within 10 yards (9.1 m) of the gun it ceased firing, and 4 of the enemy appeared, 3 of whom were shot by 1st Lt. Woodfill. The fourth, an officer, rushed at 1st Lt. Woodfill, who attempted to club the officer with his rifle. After a hand-to-hand struggle, 1st Lt. Woodfill killed the officer with his pistol. His company thereupon continued to advance, until shortly afterwards another machinegun nest was encountered. Calling on his men to follow, 1st Lt. Woodfill rushed ahead of his line in the face of heavy fire from the nest, and when several of the enemy appeared above the nest he shot them, capturing 3 other members of the crew and silencing the gun. A few minutes later this officer for the third time demonstrated conspicuous daring by charging another machinegun position, killing 5 men in one machinegun pit with his rifle. He then drew his revolver and started to jump into the pit, when 2 other gunners only a few yards away turned their gun on him. Failing to kill them with his revolver, he grabbed a pick lying nearby and killed both of them. Inspired by the exceptional courage displayed by this officer, his men pressed on to their objective under severe shell and machinegun fire.

By the end of the war, Woodfill held the status as the most decorated US soldier of the war.

Upon retiring from the service in the late 1920s, Woodfill became a farmer.  Never terribly successful at it, he hung on by taking various skilled labor jobs off his farm.  In spite of his struggles, he was uniformly regarded as a very happy man by all who knew him.  He served in the Army a second time in  World War Two, where he remained in the US as a training officer.

Other Occupationns:  Soldier.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Related Threads:

They were clerics.

They were lawyers. 

They had been soldiers.

 

They were hunters or fishermen

Another trailing thread, this one notes individuals who were in that particularly attune to nature class, hunters and fishermen.

This is a topic, of course, which could be extremely broad, as most rural people have, in the past (and still do today) hunt and/or fish a bit.  This one will try to list those individuals who were notable in doing so.

___________________________________________________________________________________

 Saint Andrew

The apostle Andrew was a fisherman.  In the modern context, he would have been considered a commercial fisherman today, as this was his occupation.  He and his brother Peter were, of course, recruited to Christ by the words that they wold "become fishers of men."

Category:  Cleric

____________________________________________________________________________________

John James Audubon

Audubon is famous as a naturalist, of course, but he was also a prodigious hunter.  He in fact obtained his specimens in that manner.

Category:  Scientist.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Tom Brockaw

North Dakota born newsman Tom Brockaw is also a bird hunter.

Category:  Journalist.

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

___________________________________________________________________________________

The Cossacks

The Cossack culture traditionally featured hunting and fishing as part of that culture.
Category:  Culture

Date Added:  July 20, 2014.

___________________________________________________________________________________

George Crook


Long serving Gen. George Crook was an avid hunter and fisherman.  It's been noted that his expedition in the summer of 1876 seemed to resemble a prolonged hunting and fishing expedition in the Big Horns after his force fought the Battle of the Rosebud.

Category:  Soldier.

Date Added:  July 20, 2014.

__________________________________________________________________________________ 
 
Bill Engvall

Comedian Bill Engvall is also a hunter and fisherman.

Category:  Comedian

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Saint Eustace

Eustace was a Roman General, known at that time as Placidus, who converted to Christianity when he saw a vision of crucifix between the horns of a deer while hunting.  His conversion resulted in his persecution and ultimately his martyrdom. 

Category:  Soldier, Matyr.  
___________________________________________________________________________________

Brett Favre

Football player Brett Favre is also a hunter.

Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Clemens August Graf von Galen

 

Clemens August Graf von Galen was a German Roman Catholic Priest who rose to be a Cardinal.  He's a famous figure for his issuance of a sermon known as the White Rose Sermon, which was one of a series of Anti Nazi sermons which earned him the nickname The Lion of Munster.  He was a Bishop at the time.  His sermons were so stern in regards to the Nazis that Hitler proposed having him removed but this was not done as it was feared that this would cause the loss of any support to the government in Westphalia, where he was located.  One Nazi party official wanted to have him executed.

He was also a German count by birth, and like most members of that class he was a hunter. The photograph of him above was taken in 1899, prior to his ordination in 1904.

Von Galen was notoriously spartan with himself, giving up almost all of the comforts of life, save for smoking pipes.  Given that, I don't know if he hunted after his ordination.

Category:  Cleric.  Revolutionary.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Natalie Gulbis

Golfer Natalie Gulbis is also a fisherman.

Category:  Athelete.

Date added:  September 29, 2014

__________________________________________________________________________________

Goose Gossage

Baseball hall of famer Goose Gossage is also a hunter.

Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Ernest Hemingway

Author Ernest Hemingway was both an avid hunter and fisherman.

Category:  Writer

Date Added:  July 20, 2014

__________________________________________________________________________________

Mariel Hemingway

Like her grandfather, Mariel Hemingway is also a sportsman.

Category:  Actress

Date Added:  July 20, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Edward Ringwood Hewitt

 Hewitt and spouse at a Woman's Emergency Service Corps Camp just prior to World War One.

Probably mostly forgotten today, Hewitt was an inventive genius in the early 20th Century, in an era when there were some very notable inventive geniuses afoot in the country.  He was also an accomplished fly fisherman, or in the language of the day a "sport fisherman", and wrote a book on the topic which was noteworthy at the time.


Category:  Chemist, Inventor

___________________________________________________________________________________

Saint Hubert



St. Hubert was a French nobleman and the heir apparent to the seat of the Aquitane.  In his youth he was  a dedicated hunter, taking an interest in hunting above all other activities, particularly after his wife died in childbirth. While hunting on Good Friday at some point in the late 600s he received a vision and thereafter became a clergyman and ultimately a Bishop.  He is one of several saints who are associated with having seen crosses between the horns of deer, while hunting.  He is the Patron Saint of Hunters.

St. Hubert is sort of recalled in an odd fashion in the modern world, through the label on the bottle of the liquor Jaegermeister.   Jaegermeister is a German alcoholic drink whose founder, Curt Mast, was a hunter.  He named the drink after the position of the Master Hunter, which is an official in charge of the hunt in German law. The depiction on the bottle shows the Jaegermeister's badge, which recalls St. Hubert.

Category:  Cleric

____________________________________________________________________________________

John Huston

Legendary film director John Huston was a hunter.  He was so distracted in that pursuit while in Africa filming The African Queen that this later became the subject of its own movie.


Category:  Film Director, Actor.

Date Added:  July 20, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Bo Jackson

Professional football and baseball player Bo Jackson is also a hunter and fisherman.


Category:  Athlete

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Jewel Kilcher

Singer Kilcher grew up on an Alaskan homestead, so its not surprising that she's also a hunter.


Category:  Singer.

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Eva Lagoria

Actress Eva Lagoria is also a hunter.

Category:  Actress.

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Miranda Lambert

Singer Miranda Lambert is also a hunter.

Category:  Singer.

Date added:  September 29, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Avril Livigne

Canadian songstress Avril Livigne is a hunter, and has listed hunting and fishing as one of her favorite pastimes.

Category:  Singer

Date added:  September 29, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

David Love

Golfer David Love is also a hunter and fisherman.

Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014

__________________________________________________________________________________

"Madonna"

Singer Madonna has also been a bird hunter.

Category:  Singer

Date added:  September 29, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Karl Malone

Basketball player Karl Malone is also a hunter and fisherman.

Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Eli Manning

Football player Eli Manning is also a fisherman.

Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Peyton Manning

Football player Peyton Manning is also a hunter.

Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014

_________________________________________________________________________________

Curt Mast

Distiller Curt Mast created the alcoholic drink known as Jaegermeister and named it after the position of the Master of the Hunt.

Category:  Businessman

___________________________________________________________________________________

Brad Miller

Basketball player Brad Miller is also a hunter and fisherman.

Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

__________________________________________________________________________________

John Michale Montgomery

Singer Montgomery is also a hunter and fisherman.

Category:  Singer.

Date added:  September 29, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Lorrie Morgan

Country singer Lorrie Morgan also hunts and fishes.

Category:  Singer

Date added:  September 29, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Ty Murray

Rodeo figure Ty Murray is also a hunter.

Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Ryan Newman

NASCAR driver Ryan Newman is also a hunter and fisherman.

Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Jack Nicholas

The legendary golfer is also a fisherman.


Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Shaquille O'Neal

Basketball player Shaquille O'Neal is also a hunter.

Category:  Athlete.

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Roy Oswalt

Baseball player Roy Oswalt is also a hunter.


Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014

__________________________________________________________________________________

Saint Peter

Peter, like his brother Andrew, occupied the profession of fisherman.  The "first" of the Apostles, like Andrew he was brought to Christ with the words that he would become "fishers of men."  St. Peter is the patron saint of fishermen.

Category:  Cleric

___________________________________________________________________________________

Jo Perry 

Rock guitarist Jo Perry is also a hunter.

Category:  Musician.

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Jake Pevey

Baseball player Jake Pevey is also a hunter.

Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Kermit Roosevelt

Like his father, Kermit Roosevelt was a hunter and adventurer, and co-authored a book on a sheep hunting expedition he took with his brother Theodore to Asia sheep hunting.

Category:  Soldier, businessman.

July 20, 2014

__________________________________________________________________________________

Theodore Roosevelt

 Theodore Roosevelt, far left, hunting in Colorado.

As is well known, Theodore Roosevelt was an accomplished hunter and hunted all over North American and even, after his presidency, in Africa.


Category:  Politician, Soldier, Writer

__________________________________________________________________________________


__________________________________________________________________________________ 

Theodore Roosevelt, Jr.

Like his father, Theodore Roosevelt, Jr was also an adventurer and hunter, having traveled as far as Asia with his brother Kermit sheep hunting.

Category:  Politician, soldier, businessman

Date Added:  July 20, 2014

__________________________________________________________________________________ 

Blake Shelton

Singer Blake Shelton is also a hunter.


Category:  Singer.

Date added:  September 29, 2014

___________________________________________________________________________________

Tony Stewart

NASCAR driver Tony Stewart is also a hunter.


Category:  Athlete

Date added:  September 29, 2014

_________________________________________________________________________________

Micheal Strahan

Football playwer Michael Strahan is also a hunter.


Category:  Athlete

Date added:  September 29, 2014

_________________________________________________________________________________

Mike Timlin

Boston Red Sox pitcher Mike Timlin is also a hunter.

Category:  Athlete

Date added:  September 29, 2014.
__________________________________________________________________________________

Boo Weekley

Golfer Boo Weekley is also a hunter and fisherman.


Category:  Athlete

Date added:  September 29, 2014. 
__________________________________________________________________________________

Adam West

Famous for playing Batman in the early television series, West was also a bird hunter.

Category:  Actor

Date added:  September 29, 2014.

_________________________________________________________________________________ 

Tiger Woods

Golfer Tiger Woods is also a fisherman.

Category:  Athelete

Date added:  September 29, 2014.